Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds
my point is based on the surviving pop of graded e98 around the time of the BSF...the find practically doubled the pop of e98's.
Caramel cards are rare...and were likely printed in much smaller numbers than something like t206.
i believe the BSF contributed an extraordinarily large number of cards to the pop...most of the same color.
This is peculiar.
This is my point. I believe BOB is incorrect in his estimation of 25 examples/card. I remember more like close to 50 each of cobb and wagner.
And I believe 1000+ cards for one store is an extraordinarily large #. If every store got this quantity of cards...there'd be a ton more surviving examples for sure.
just my opinion.
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Pete,
As Edhans said, he heard about 22 per player, right in line with what I had said, about 20-25 per player. All the stories I had seen were talking around 700 or so cards being found, which makes perfect sense when you take the 30 players in the set, less the couple/few that appear to have either been taken to this guy's store and actually distributed/given away, or were for whatever reason not included in the player cards originally given him. You end up with about 27-28 players X 20-25 cards per each, which get you close to that 700+ figure. And maybe there were a couple players with two stacks, so they did have closer to 50 cards, but the large majority of the players in the set that were in this find would have only been in that 20-25 cards per player range, as I said. Having a couple/few players with maybe a second stack of cards in the find gets you even closer to the 700+ or so cards estimated in the stories, but would only be the case for a very few of the players, at most. So the 20-25 cards per player I mentioned is likely accurate for the majority of the players after all.
And then go back to the Strange Inheritance TV show episode, where they actually have the people who originally found the cards on and talking about them. The show host actually mentioned them finding about 800 cards in total in the find, more than once, during the show. Why would a TV show, that has the actual parties that found the cards and who are directly contributing to the show, be giving an incorrect total for the number of cards actually found? I had seen the episode years ago, which showed how the cards of individual players were wrapped in twine or string. You can see from the recreation that there is probably about 20-25 cards or so in each stack or group that were found. There were about 20 or so cousins that all shared in the collection as well, and when it was discussed among everyone what to do with the cards, they decided to split them up in what I guess were equal lots, and then let each of the cousins decide what they wanted to do with their lot. Apparently not every cousin decided right then and there to sell their portion of the cards. Those that did combined and sent their cards off to Heritage to then do a structured sale so as to not completely flood the market all at once. And Pete Calderon at Heritage had Joe Orlando and PSA grade the cards they were given before selling them for the heirs. Those that did not take part in the sale supposedly kept their cards and didn't send them right off to Heritage, and subsequent grading by PSA. I've never heard what actually happened with those cards supposedly kept by some of the cousins. For all I know, they've since been sold/graded, but maybe some are actually still in the hands of a cousin or two. I've assumed that the people and stories I used to hear/read talking about there being 600-700 or so cards in the Find were referring to the cards of the cousins that decided to go ahead and sell right from the beginning through Heritage. That makes perfect sense then if you figure that if the entire find had about 800 cards, each cousin's share would be about 30-40 cards. So, if 2, 3, or 4 of the cousins decided not to sell their cards right away, and kept them instead, that easily gets the 800 or so mentioned as the total Find in the Strange Inheritance TV show down to the 600-700 often mentioned in stories and reports. But nowhere does anyone ever mention there were 1000-1500 cards in this find. So once again I ask, for those that are now saying there was 1000-1500 in this find, where the heck did any of you hear or see that?
Also, as had been mentioned before, stories like this get people's attention in the hobby. Hearing about this find, and the attention it triggered, could also get people that had raw versions of these E98 cards to suddenly start getting them graded as well, to possibly jump in and take advantage of the attention this set was now getting. Just look at the prices these cards were getting, as shown in the Strange Inheritance TV show story. Isn't this exactly what is at times talked about here on the forum how when a card(s) suddenly goes for a big price, it gets other collectors excited and tends to bring similar cards out of the woodwork as others look to now cash in as well? And as some others also mentioned, it is extremely probable that the number of graded E98 cards per population reports are inflated due to various reasons. And also, as was mentioned in different articles and on the TV show, prior to the Black Swamp Find there were no E98 cards graded higher than a 7, and most all the Black Swamp cards were described as being in better condition than that. Well, if you look at the PSA and SGC population reports today, they show a total of 202 E98 cards graded higher than a 7 by SGC, and 704 E98 cards graded higher than a 7 by PSA. That comes to 906 in total between them. And though not in existence until just a couple years back, CSG's population report shows 17 E98 cards have been graded by them that rate higher than a 7, bringing the grand total up to 923 E98s currently graded better than NM 7. And as some have talked about those figures being inflated due to crossovers, wanting to remove the "Black Swamp Find" designation from the flips, and who knows how many some card doctors may have gotten a hold of for resubmission. And there is also the distinct possibility there actually could have been some pristine E98 cards that were raw and in collector's hands, but unknown to the hobby at large prior to the Find, that were brought out into the hobby because of the publicity the Black Swamp Find created. In other words, the 923 figure for graded E98 cards higher than a 7 grade doesn't really seem to be out of line with there having been about 700-800 cards in the Black Swamp Find after all, assuming there are some inflated population report numbers for these graded E98s after all.
If you have or know of other information, articles, data or logical explanations as to there being 1000-1500 of these cards in the Black Swamp Find after all, would love to see/hear it/them.