[nolemmings]

The problem that sometimes arises in these threads is people picking and choosing what part of an argument they want to make and then disregarding the rest–sometimes innocently because they did not read every post or overlooked something said. My arguments against Scott Rolen were not based solely on the fact that I did not think he was even the best player on his team, although I do hold that belief. I quoted an article that led off with the reasons why he does not belong in the HOF, the first of which is that he did not finish in the top 10 in any meaningful category. That is extremely telling to me, and I have reiterated it, with no response that I have seen. While there were legitimate arguments as to whether Rolen was indeed the best on his team a time or two and that I was comparing apples to oranges, no one seems to rebut the fact that Rolen was not dominant and arguably not even superlative in any category.

A player’s ranking on his own team obviously does not by itself determine greatness, as pointed out and exemplified by Lou Gehrig and others. I understand that, in fact, I even stated that Graig Nettles is a better third baseman than Rolen, and most times Nettles was not even the second best player on his team. A quick comparison of the two is enlightening, in my opinion, but please understand that I do not necessarily consider Nettles a HOFer either, I merely point out his numbers and stress that he didn’t get more than about 8% of the HOF vote and dropped off the ballot early, yet Rolen, well, you know.

I will first admit that in looking at Rolen’s stats closely on Baseball Reference and not deferring to the author I had quoted, he did in fact finish in the top 10 in RBI twice, in runs scored twice, and OBP once, although never leading in anything. Graig Nettles once led the league in Home Runs, and finished in the top 10 five times. He matched Rolen’s two-time finishes in runs scored and one appearance on the leader board for OBP while three times making it there in RBI. Other similar measurements between the two players were roughly equal, although it should be remembered that Nettles hit 390 HR. As for advanced metrics, the two were nearly identical, but Nettles ranks just ahead of Rolen both in offensive WAR and defensive WAR. Yet Nettles never got a sniff at the HOF, and Rolen soon will be enshrined.

I acknowledge that I was a fan of Puff and was/am indifferent at best about Rolen. But I stand by my first statement on the subject in post #145– Scott Rolen: “Excellent player, borderline great, that's it IMO”.