Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu
What if the photo shows Evers, Chance, and someone who looks like but is not Tinker? Below is the famous Paul Thompson Tinker photo, the fella in question, and on the right an older Tinker from a photo in the HOF's collection:
Attachment 523508
I don't think that is Tinker - lots of the facial features look different to me and they don't appear to have the same teeth.
If true, this removes all of the Tinker questions from the equation. And it seems possible that there is some symbolism going on in the photo - if Chance is handing the ball to Evers, this could well be when managerial duties were passed between the two, which would then place this most likely in a Chicago nightclub with the guy in the middle perhaps being the club owner or working for the team.
What this does not resolve is the dating of the stamp proposed by Bob. I can add to that some nice work by Jim Chapman who has a NY stamp study:
https://chapmandeadballcollection.co...tamp-primer-2/
I checked the 1924 San Francisco phonebook - there is no listing for International News Service but there is one for the International News Service, which was at 632 Mission St. - not too far away from the Call Building.
Looking around for information on the New Call Building, I found this:
https://sfpl.org/locations/main-libr...isco-news-call
Specifically, "The combined gift of the morgues from the San Francisco News and Hearst’s San Francisco Call-Bulletin was an estimated 2 million photographs. The San Francisco News-Call Bulletin Photo Morgue represents the working files created and used by the newspapers’ staff between the 1920s and September 1965."
This doesn't clear up why International Film Service would've been typed onto the back of this photo in 1924 - but a typing error is possible, something less likely had this been a stamp - but it does show a Hearst photo archive working out of the building typed on the back of the photo in the 1920s and beyond, so maybe we can't rule out 1924.
Lots of guesses, that's for sure.  |
Great additional info Bryan. And in seeing that photo of an older Tinker next to the one from the photo in question, and one from his earlier playing days, I have to concur and now don't think that is Tinker either in the photo with Evers and Chance. I wasn't 100% sure when I first saw the photo, but know how diligent Al is in selling and listing things, so I initially figured he had just gained some weight in his face over the years, and him chomping on a cigar caused enough change in the facial expression and features that it was perfectly natural Tinker would look a little different from his playing days in the supposed photo with Evers and Chance. But adding that much older Tinker photo, and putting it side by side with the supposedly two earlier ones of him, really brings out the lack of a normal aging progression for Tinker across all three of those pictures.
And if that isn't Tinker, that would make more sense due to the fight and ongoing dislike Tinker had with Evers for years. You wouldn't expect to have seen the two of them in an off the field photo otherwise. Also, it not being Tinker in the photo would make more sense for Evers and Chance being together because of their potential re-joining and working together in baseball as members of the White Sox coaching staff for the then upcoming 1924 season. And the possible photo op of Chance ceremoniously passing the ball, sort of as a symbol of passing the managerial duties, to Evers, makes logical sense then as well.
Great work in finding that info on Hearst's International Film Service company, and the various stamps they used to mark their portfolio items. The fact that such a stamp was not used on the back of this photo, but was typed on instead, and mentioned a San Francisco and not a New York city office address, is a bit perplexing. As you mentioned, Hearst did have a photo archive kept in San Fransisco for his Call-Bulletin paper. Perhaps he had the IFS photo archives sent out to the San Francisco office for safekeeping some time after he'd formally shut IFS down in 1918. This photo of Evers, Chance, and whoever this third guy is, may have just been included in with everything else sent, but not having been properly stamped as expected. Someone in San Francisco may have seen it lacked the proper source stamp, and just guessed it was originally the property of IFS, so that was what they typed on the back.
However, Hearst also owned a paper in New York City at the time, the Journal, and one would think they'd have a photo archive as well. So why send the IFS photo archive across country to San Francisco? Makes no logical sense, unless you consider that Hearst was originally from San Francisco, as was the first ever newspaper he ever owned. So maybe he did end up sending discontinued archive items to his former home and first ever newspaper. We'll probably never know the true, full story, but it's still fun to speculate, and interesting to read and learn about. Good stuff!