[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by jgannon

Ah, I see you stayed up almost an hour trying to come up with something!

Since you're college educated, maybe you'll understand that context has a bearing on the answer to your question. What I was trying to say was that the present conflict could have been avoided and right now the U.S. and NATO are fighting a proxy war down to the last Ukranian. If I were a citizen of Ukraine, I would be angry at Putin, but I would also be angry at my government for getting my country into an unnecessary conflict. Putin pulled the trigger, but the U.S. and Ukraine did everything they could to goad him. The Charter on Strategic Partnership which was signed between the U.S. and Ukraine on Nov. 10th of last year, which reiterated U.S. support Ukraine's right to join NATO, was the last straw for Putin who had been sternly warning both parties of the unacceptability Ukranian membership for years.

Does Putin have the right to keep Ukraine or any other nation out of NATO? The more accurate question would be, why was NATO not disbanded after Germany was reunified and the Soviet Union dissolved? You might say, because of exactly what is happening right now. But the early 90s were an opportunity for unprecedented cooperation and amity between the U.S. and Russia. Russia even wanted to join NATO for a time. The other question is, does Russia have a right to feel threatened as 14 of it's neighbors have been armed over the years, with some of those countries pointing missiles at them? Does allowing Ukraine which sits right on it's doorstep worsen that situation in Russia's eyes?

Did the United States have a responsibility to read the geopolitical tea leaves more accurately instead of pushing the little fella to wake the sleeping giant? There are some far-right ultra nationalists in Ukraine, who incidentally are part of the armed forces there who were also committing atrocities such as burning some Ukraninans alive in the east, who might be ecstatic about the situation. But of course, there are a lot of innocent people who are being victimized and dying because of the absolute fecklessness foreign of the U.S. and the Ukrainian government.

So again, if I were a politically aware citizen living in Ukraine, I would be mad as hell at Russia, as well as mad as hell at my government for blundering into this. And the answer is, that I would not be ecstatic about fighting as a result of other people's absolute stupidity.

The idea of fighting for gas and oil in Afghanistan and Iraq was also repugnant to me.

Didn’t realize Net54 was still reachable in Moscow.