Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911
No need to apologize, sir.
I’m 1954, Hodges was 3rd in MVP votes among only Brooklyn Dodgers. Snider was clearly better. WAR puts Hodges even with Reese, though they are very different type seasons and take lots of subjective views to compare value. WAR puts Hodges 10th in the league, same as his MVP finish. Kluszewski was clearly better. He wasn’t a serious MVP candidate, he had an excellent season. He had no first place votes. Modern metrics paint the same story as his traditional stats. It is an excellent season, the kind of season a hall of famer puts up. But he was not a serious MVP candidate.
My point about the WS is not that Hodges performance was poor, or that it should keep him from the hall. It’s that his performance is misleading when his poor series are cut off, like any dataset showing only a players best instead of the overall. He performed overall about the same or a little worse than he did in the regular season. This is true for most players, even Mickey Mantle doesn’t hit as good against the best team as he will against the whole league. Mickey Mantles hall of fame credentials are not built on his post season performance. Mantle leading the league in strikeouts does hurt him, but he led the league in lots of good things lots of times whereas Hodges never once did. Hodges series play is not a detriment, also not much of a credit.
I would not vote for Hodges as a player. I would not vote for Hodges as a manager. I would vote for Hodges on a combination of both; if it was my hall of fame I’d select him as a lower tier nominee. I’d vote for other players on this premise too. The Hall isn’t supposed to combine resumes, but the Veterans Committees probably do. I don’t think Schoendienst, for example, got in solely as a player without any thoughts about his second life in baseball.
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Well hey, thanks. That's very nice of you to say.
Yeah, regarding the 1954 season, I was saying it was an excellent season, and as you say, the kind of season a Hall-of-famer has. I didn't exhaustively check out the other players or his stats vis-a-vis the other Dodgers. I was just saying that it could be an MVP year in general.
Regarding his World Series play, obviously his 1952 series was not good But after that, he consistently did well in the World Series. I think one can consider it from both points of view. I mean, even if one doesn't think Hodges is a Hall-of-famer, Hodges was a better player than how he played in the '52 series. 1952 is really a bit of a fluke. Yes, it happened, and brings his overall WS stats down. But he performed a lot better over a longer period of time following.
I was thinking that the Veterans Committee would take into account his playing and his managing career. But as you point out, I guess that they are not supposed to. I guess the Golden Era Committee wasn't supposed to either. At any rate, I obviously give Hodges' playing career more weight than you do. But in another way, we're not disagreeing, because I also think of Hodges' career as including his 1969 championship with the Mets. To me, it's an important part of his career. It definitely is a piece of the puzzle that makes Gil Hodges a Hall of Fame figure.