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Originally Posted by jgannon
EDIT: By the way I edited this post as you will see in the comment immediately following this one. The original post was much too incisive and unfair to you, and I apologize. The comments I make here are how I should have phrased things. All the best - Gannon
Just getting back to you here quickly. As far as the 1954 voting for NL MVP, my point was that his numbers were MVP-worthy. I looked up the voting and Kluszewski was the only player to hit more home runs than him, and have more RBI's. Johnny Antonelli, the pitcher came in 3rd in the balloting. All of these players had great years in their own way. To say that Hodges wasn't a serious MVP candidate wasn't really his fault. There is some subjectivity involved here.
Regarding Hodges' WS play, anyone can have a bad series, during the season or in the post season, against strong teams or weak teams. Sure, Hodges had a .267 average if you take in all of his games. Mantle's WS average was .257. Maybe Mantle with his .298 lifetime average, and having a number of seasons with more than 99 strikeouts shouldn't be in the HOF, smh. The point is Hodges had some great World Series hitting .364, .292, .302, and .391 in 1953, 1955, 1956, and 1959 respectively. Yep, 1952 was a disaster. But Hodges didn't let that affect him going forward - which is the mark of a pro and a champion. And he contributed significantly to the Dodgers becoming champions in '55.
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No need to apologize, sir.
I’m 1954, Hodges was 3rd in MVP votes among only Brooklyn Dodgers. Snider was clearly better. WAR puts Hodges even with Reese, though they are very different type seasons and take lots of subjective views to compare value. WAR puts Hodges 10th in the league, same as his MVP finish. Kluszewski was clearly better. He wasn’t a serious MVP candidate, he had an excellent season. He had no first place votes. Modern metrics paint the same story as his traditional stats. It is an excellent season, the kind of season a hall of famer puts up. But he was not a serious MVP candidate.
My point about the WS is not that Hodges performance was poor, or that it should keep him from the hall. It’s that his performance is misleading when his poor series are cut off, like any dataset showing only a players best instead of the overall. He performed overall about the same or a little worse than he did in the regular season. This is true for most players, even Mickey Mantle doesn’t hit as good against the best team as he will against the whole league. Mickey Mantles hall of fame credentials are not built on his post season performance. Mantle leading the league in strikeouts does hurt him, but he led the league in lots of good things lots of times whereas Hodges never once did. Hodges series play is not a detriment, also not much of a credit.
I would not vote for Hodges as a player. I would not vote for Hodges as a manager. I would vote for Hodges on a combination of both; if it was my hall of fame I’d select him as a lower tier nominee. I’d vote for other players on this premise too. The Hall isn’t supposed to combine resumes, but the Veterans Committees probably do. I don’t think Schoendienst, for example, got in solely as a player without any thoughts about his second life in baseball.