[BobC]

Originally Posted by AndrewJerome

I agree with most of Peter’s post #1233.

And I don’t think anyone in here is arguing that 1910s 1920s and 1930s players overall are “better” than the modern players. Yet this thread is bombarded with arguments against the overall play of the old guys. You are arguing against no one. No one is arguing the overall play from 1910 or 1930 is better than 2021. So that argument can be put to rest. Except I guess those posters who think Grove is the best ever? Even those posters are selectively taking one player and not an entire era of players.

However, I think there are interesting questions to ponder. Overall quality of play is very difficult to evaluate. Snowman thinks a model could be made to try and get some answers. Who knows. Personally, I think it is much more complicated than just saying players are bigger, taller and stronger now, so every year the quality of play goes up slightly. I think there are more ebbs and flows based on the number of elite players at any one time. Again, who knows. I also think that there is a limit to how much bigger, taller and stronger helps a baseball player. I used around 6’ 3” or 6’ 4” as about the max height that it helps a baseball player. I’ll stick to that. Absolutely for the 8 position players. There are very few 6’ 5”+ players who can play any semblance of defense for the 8 fielding positions (sure, a very tall guy can try to play 1st). There is a point where very tall human simply can’t function as a middle infielder or outfielder. It would be like having a bunch of DH type guys playing in the field. It doesn’t work.

Similarly, no one is arguing short players are abundant or better than 6’ 3” guys. So put this argument to rest. Altuve is 5’ 4” and won a MVP, so clearly short players can be elite. However, no one is saying there are 100s of short guys dominating. But there clearly are some short/small guys who are elite. Height is not a barrier to entry for baseball. Which is what makes baseball great. Just like there are some really tall guys who are elite like Randy Johnson. But certainly there are not 100s of super tall guys dominating either. It would be fun to see a list of the best modern players 6’ 5” and taller. Freddie Freeman is elite at 6’ 5”. However, this 6’ 5”+ list does not include most of he best modern players:

Trout 6’ 2”
Vlad Jr. 6’ 2”
Acuna 6’ 0”
Harper 6’ 3”
Soto 6’ 2”
Jose Ramirez 5’ 9”
Ohtani 6’ 4”
Schertzer 6’ 3”
Kershaw 6’ 4”
Degrom 6’ 4” and 180 pounds!
Cole 6’ 4”

Glasnow is a great example of modern bigger, taller, stronger that isn’t really better. He’s 6’ 8” and throws 99. So what? He’s 27 years old and pitched 403 innings for his whole career. He likely will miss much of his age 28 season with injury and be stuck on 403 innings. He can’t stay healthy because he is too big, tall, and strong. He gets you like 60-70 innings per year before his body breaks down. This is an epidemic for modern bigger, taller, stronger pitchers. The force on their bodies of throwing so hard leads to lots and lots of injuries. It is debatable how much better you can be than previous players if you are constantly hurt.

Randy again is a massive outlier at his height, dominance, and longevity. I have Randy as the best lefty ever. The reasons have been given in great detail. So again to be clear, I am NOT saying old time players are better than modern players. I just think the analysis is much more complicated than some in here seem to think.

Great points, you think a lot like a do.