Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasL
So what...a major argument people hold up for Rose is the "he never bet against his team" and the act of not betting is the same as betting against and if you cant see that point well I cant help you. If true he didnt bet against his team, it in the end does not matter and betting on your team is still against the rules and the same as betting against in the eyes of the MLB since basically 1926/27 when that rule came into being. Go read the original rule, it is very clear on this point.
Who cares... obviously since it carried the most extreme punishment if someone broke it I would say a lot of people cared.
The point is it does not matter if he bet on his team to win or lose and that is a moot point...simply betting on baseball was the crime and he did it and knew the consequences that were well established.
|
Really Thomas?!?!?!?!
Go back and read what you originally posted about looking at the Rose gambling issue "from a betting perspective", your words, not mine.
Quote: "Rose, an active bettor, by not acting and betting on his team to win is catamount to him tipping off gamblers that he, the best player and manager of the Reds, did not think the Reds would win and thus from a betting perspective is on the same level as a player throwing a game. He didnt throw a game but instead basically said my team isnt likely to win this game...same thing and that's the point"
You actually said that by Rose not betting on his team to win was basically the same as a player throwing a game. Please read that as many times as you have to, to let that sink in. Oh wait, that's right, you said this comment and logic was "from a betting perspective". And that is exactly why I was making the "So what" and Who cares" comments. They were in regard to the idea that this issue is important because of the gambling aspect where people use that as an argument against the claim that Rose never bet against his own team so that he wasn't purposely throwing ballgames, and therefore the gambling rule shouldn't really apply to him. I actually agree with you and the fact that him betting on his team only to win is still wrong and against the rule, which I have in fact read. What I was trying to convey was that the argument you, and many others, put forth to counter that "he only bet to win" claim is unnecessary.
Think about this, what if Rose didn't bet on every single game he was ever involved in? OK, so he bet on some games when he had a good feeling his team would win. Did he ever say or does anyone really know if he bet on every single game like that though? What if he got tied up and couldn't get a hold of his bookie in time to place a bet? What if he only placed a bet when he felt his team had a decided advantage to win, and didn't bet if he thought it was only a 50/50 chance or something like that. We don't know, so to make a statement that gamblers thought it was the same as him throwing a game when he didn't bet on his team seems to be a bit of a reach. And another thing, if I'm the bookie Rose calls to make his bets so I know when he does and doesn't bet on his team, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to keep that theoretical inside info to myself to take advantage of rather than tell the whole world about it? MLB didn't care if someone did end up making money off Rose's activity from illegal gambling, what they didn't want was the public thinking Rose might be doing it so that he may be compromising the supposed integrity of the games themselves. So the gambling aspect itself isn't what counters the "he didn't bet to lose" argument, it is the fact that he gambled at all and that could be perceived by fans that he was lying about only betting on games to win and that he could have been betting against his own team at times and actively trying to throw those games after all, just to win money. No one ever needed to come up with the argument about what it may have meant when he didn't bet on his team, it wasn't necessary, is useless and completely unprovable one way or the other.
Still, how can you argue that Rose's bookie knowing when he didn't bet on his team was the same as him trying to throw the game? Betting to win and actively trying to lose games you don't bet on are totally unrelated. I can understand the argument by some that Rose's gambling activity could possibly have an effect on his decision making in a game to maybe pull a pitcher early or not bring in a reliever to use them in a later game where he may think he has a better chance to win, but pretty much every MLB manager does that over the course of a season in trying to win as many games as possible. You let it go in games you don't think you have a good chance to win, and try to improve the chances of the ones you think are more winnable then. Again, it is the perception that he could be gambling and trying to lose games to win bets that causes the issue, not what games he does or doesn't bet on.
So do you understand now what my point was? I'm actually in agreement with you regarding Rose being wrong. By the way, please look up what "catamount" means. I laughed when I first read your post and assumed it was a spellcheck error or something like that. Thanks.