Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddy
Bill, you simply threw out a challenge - "Prove me wrong" and I took up the challenge, though not with the thoroughness that you tend to reply with.
I think we probably both rate Jeter about the same - first ballot HOF, but not in the rare air of Mays, Ruth, Cobb, etc. I might rate him a tad higher, but that's only because of seeing him so much on TV (especially in the fall), in person and because he was my son's favorite player. We made many trips to Baltimore to see the Yankees over the years.
And in response to the other question about all-time shortstops and especially Arod, I believe he might have been THE BEST all-time if he hadn't juiced. The PEDs gave him some more power, but along with the bulk he picked up he lost his range, quickness and flexibility that are required to play SS. Made him a great 3rd baseman, where you only need two steps to either side, but diminished his skills at short.
Overall, my list today is:
1. Wagner
2. Ripken
3. Jeter/Ozzie
5. Yount/Arod (because of time spent elsewhere on the diamond)
6. Banks?
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Even before (and after) he juiced, ARod was a better SS than Jeter. By far. Jeter should have moved, not ARod. ARod was sooooo much a better SS than Jeter was that it isn't even funny. FAR more range, more glove, more everything. Yet he moved. Jeter didn't. I always viewed that as selfish.
I don't disagree that Jeter is a first ballot HOFer, whatever that means. He was offensively, a consistent and productive hitter, particularly in the clutch situations. Not a doubt. I agree with Bill's analysis in that regard. But he is still not nearly the best HOFer as a SS ever. That argument literally can't be made with a straight face except, maybe, by a diehard Yankee fan. That is my problem with that silly 100% argument. It doesn't matter any more than if you are elected on the 1st or last ballot. If you are in, you are in. You are, by definition, a 100% HOFer. At that point WTF does it matter what your vote percentage is?