[BobC]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Bob,

That is a very informative and well thought out post.

The biggest obstacle I see to implementing what you are outlining is a conceptual one -- collecting by its nature is subjective. Therefore, the notion of having some universal objective grading standard that all TPGs would be bound to follow strikes me as being inconsistent with why people collect in the first place -- personal enjoyment. One person's 8 could be another person's 3, and vice versa.

In my ideal grading world, the sole purpose of a TPG is to opine if the card is genuine and what, if anything, has been done to it. There would be no numerical grades. At that point, armed with that information, a prospective purchaser can decide how much he/she is willing to pay.

In regard to the concern as to how PSA can be found to be liable under their guaranty if the grade is nothing more than an opinion, I don't think they will be that easily let off the hook. I believe if litigated a court would rule in such a way that would give economic substance to the guaranty, which would not be the case if all PSA has to say they in good faith stand by their original grade. PSA charges up to $5K to grade certain cards, and for that money I can't imagine they would not have a lot of explaining to do if a numerically graded card is objectively found to be altered.

This then raises the question how can one objectively determine alteration and thereby meet the legal standard of proof if one cannot remove it from the slab without voiding the guaranty? I can think of at least two ways -- (1) certain trimmed borders when magnified will show sufficiently clear differences when contrasted with untrimmed borders to persuade a trier of fact that the initial grade was incorrect; (2) Removing the card from the slab under appropriate video recorded supervision, which could then permit a scientific analysis of the borders to determine if they exhibit chemical characteristics indicative of recent exposure to the atmosphere (i.e., they were trimmed). I suspect other scientific tests could also be performed to detect other alterations (e.g., addition of coloring, chemical cleaning).

PSA of course will argue that the removal from the slab voids the guaranty. Given the extreme difficulty/impossibility of proving alteration by leaving the card in the slab, coupled with using the video recording to establish to the court's satisfaction that the alteration did not occur after the removal (thereby addressing the concern behind the prohibition against removal), I believe there is a real shot a court would rule the guaranty is not voided.

That to me is the biggest risk PSA faces -- being wiped out financially, as I believe their contingent liability grossly exceeds their capability to absorb it.

Corey,

You are absolutely right, too many people have too many different ideas on what should be what. I said one of the main problems would be getting everyone to actually agree on a single set of standards and then trying to get everyone to follow it. Your thoughts about having TPGs merely authentic a card and then leaving it to collectors to decide what shape it is in makes the best sense to me also. Unfortunately too many people that have gotten into cards view them not just as hobby collectibles, but as investments that they hope continue to rise in value. And that is the inherent problem when you get a hobby where some are in it for fun and to collect, whereas others are in it for business and profit. Because of the people that are in it for potential investment/profit, you end up needing to keep some grading system in place because unlike artwork where each piece is an original one-of-one, there can be hundreds or thousands of a particular card and the grading is what can differentiate a rare, almost perfect condition card from a similar one in just VG shape. And therein because of that condition rarity is where the perceived increase in value comes from, at least to a pretty good majority of card collectors. And because of the financial/investment side of the hobby that exists, having an agreed upon, single set of standards would make it easier for people to relate and compare graded cards across the board.

Because of the perceived differences in some TPGs to others, and the effect they can have on a card's value, we already have it now where people just pay more or less for cards of supposedly similar grades solely based on who graded it. How many threads and discussions have there been about how say a PSA 6 of a certain card will always bring more money than that same exact card in a comparable SGC or BGS 6 holder? If you can get a collector group/organization to agree upon and then enforce a single set of standards, and force the TPGs to follow it, there would be a benefit for both true hobby collectors as well as those in it more for the business/investment aspect. You would get graded cards to be uniform and comparable across all grading companies and this could help to eliminate the inconsistencies among graded cards and perceived values. You could also have the hobby/collecting group become the party that keeps track of the graded cards across the entire hobby and not just have certain TPGs set up their own registry. That way all collectors could have their graded cards registered and tracked by that one collecting group, and include all graded cards regardless of the TPG. The collecting group would then require the TPGs as part of what they would have to do to continue to be a licensed grading company, to share with them information about all newly graded cards so there would be a single unified registry that all members of the collecting community could access and use. One of the benefits would be that if someone went to crossover a graded card from one TPG to another that the TPG doing the re-grade would be required to inform the collecting group registry the information as to what holder they took the card from, and what holder they now put it into. The registry group could then remove the old, broken-out graded card from the registry and replace it with information of the new, regraded one. That way the people in the hobby would be able to have a better idea of how many of a particular card are actually graded and in existence. It would also help to make it easier to track graded cards, especially if as part of such an overall hobby group run registry the TPGs were also required to supply images of cards they are grading as well for comparative purposes. With a registry and database like that you could watch what is happening to cards a lot better than it is now. Of course someone could still just break a card out of a holder and not tell anyone, and there is also the problem of how do you get all of the graded cards that are already out there into such a registry to make it more valuable and meaningful. While nothing is perfect or foolproof, it could help to cut down on the abuses and shenanigans of card doctors because there would be one source and data base you could watch and better track graded cards from. In a more perfect world, that would have been something to have started out with from the beginning of the graded card era. Now it may be too little, too late to try and impose such a group to oversee and change the hobby and how it functions.