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Originally Posted by Goudey77
David sorry I'm going to make an example of your response.
Nothing in what you say is constructive or added value to this topic.
To throw your hands up and say it's been going on for decades and that TPG's cannot follow similar standards as other industries is just wrong.
You say it's been known for years, its been talked about for decades, its part of the hobby since the beginning, there are already "restored" flips available. So does the hobby keep going in the direction that it is?
The stubborn mentality that fears change will always fall behind.
As I said before similar parallels to the comic industry years ago about this subject. Now that CGC recognizes conservation/restoration fully and has their own "tenets" there is nothing taboo about the subject.
If CGC can do this then it would appear to be a less intrusive process for PSA or SGC to follow in analyzing a simple card that is not as "elaborate" as a comic book right?
The point of my thread is to call out what's been done by similar hobby grading methodologies where things like pressing, cleaning, color touch, identifying trim etc. are part of conservation or restoration.
Again if CGC can do it with books there is absolutely no reason PSA or SGC could not do it on a card.
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Martin, I just am having a hard time believing that you don’t work for PWCC or are in some way associated with the company or at the minimum are close friends with one of the principal people within the company. I have never in my life seen someone on a message board attempting to defend a business/individual with the vigor and determination that you are for PWCC. Just tell us the truth, what is your deal?
I have largely stayed out of this discussion as it all makes me sick. S*** has been going on in this hobby for decades and it all sucks. The spin that Brent is attempting right now is utterly ridiculous... if he didn’t know what was going on to some degree or another he was voluntarily living in ignorance. That being said PSA/BGS also are at fault for their inability to detect some of the most obviously trimmed vintage cards I have ever seen.
The hobby has determined (long before Brent/Betsy/Martin ever even thought about it) what is and isn’t okay. Yes there is some gray area as to what the hard line in the sand is but there are many things that are now and have always been not okay (and everyone mentioned in this and the other threads know what those are despite the spin they are trying to put forth). Everyone involved bears responsibility for the current situation despite what Martin would have us believe...
-PSA/BGS sucks at detecting the altered cards that have been submitted. They bear responsibility for that fact.
-PWCC (including all involved in that entity) suck at detecting the obvious shenanigans going on with their auctions (that or they are willfully involved, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt here). They bear responsibility for this, what they have and are doing IS NOT ENOUGH! Their attempts to reshape the narrative, redefine hobby standards, claim ignorance are comical to watch.