[bounce]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

But I think it’s good we talk amongst our community about these definitions. But can we do it constructively?

Is this Brent? I realize this is the internet, so I didn't hear you say it, but "can we do it constructively" probably isn't the best phrasing. Just saying...

This discussion has been going on for decades now? It isn't "new", it's just become more common in the recent weeks, and more public.

Originally Posted by Goudey77

The way I see it our hobby is in a vulnerable spot, growing pains of sorts, in a phase where these restored cards are going undetected by TPG’s and being sold to the community.

Again, not new. These things have been going on for decades as well. Restored/altered cards were getting through the TPGs from the very beginning. The hobby isn't more vulnerable than any other time, again it's just become more public thanks to the internet and hobbyists pointing out all the parties involved and how they are/may be linked to each other.

Originally Posted by Goudey77

Could this mean conservation and restoration is legitimately recognized by the TPG. Grading such cards under a different label?

Also, not new as it already exists (at least at PSA). There is a "Restored" label to go on flips.

Originally Posted by Goudey77

But what happens if SGC or PSA follows every other collectibles industry who has clearly defined restoration? Grades under a “restored” flip..Will that satisfy the collectors here and put the subject to rest?

Who in the art world is official standard setter of "restoration"?

I don't collect comics, but I am at least generally aware of CGC and their grading. I'm also pretty sure that they disclose a fair bit more any restoration/alteration work they see on the comics, no? It's frequently a list of those things, whereas in cards it's just the one word on the flip.

I'm also going to go on record as saying that cards and comics are NOT similar collectibles. Comics are multiple pages attached together in some manner, much thinner stock normally than cards, it's generally a more "elaborate" collectible than a single card that's a few inches each direction, and damage to inside pages affects the grade, not just the cover and the back.

One last item. This is off the CGC site, and it's identified as a "restoration" technique that would get called out on a slab. Maybe I misunderstood the video discussion, but certainly didn't sound to me like "cleaning" was something that was likely to get called out on a slab unless it "smelled" of something, in which case it became alteration.

Again, I don't think cards and comics are particularly similar, just simply pointing out that even with these "mature" markets and their definitions the card "leaders" aren't even being consistent with those. Who should we believe then?


CLEANED (lightened). An aqueous process to lighten the paper color or remove soluble acids, often using chemical oxidation, solvents, or water. This process is sometimes called cleaned and pressed or C&P. Common chemicals used to lighten paper include benzene, acetone, xylene, sodium hypochlorite, hydrogen peroxide, chloramine-T, chlorine dioxide, sodium borohydrate, etc.