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Originally Posted by 100backstroke
I saw Ryan at/near his career prime - 1970's. As a fan, he offered non-statistical qualities that made him larger than life. You had to be there to understand, to feel it, to live it - extraordinary! He did things no other pitcher could do. He was more electric and often more dominating than any other pitcher who ever played.
I was a kid 8 years old in 1973 when he won 21 games for the Angels (team won 79). Had 2.87 ERA, tallied 2 no-hitters, broke Koufax's single season strikeout record with 383, and perhaps most astonishing was his 26 complete games, yes you read that right - 26 complete games. And I didn't even list all the 1-hitters and 2-hitters. Try all you want Seaver, Carlton, Catfish, Perry, Palmer and whoever else - you are never going to put up those kind of numbers.
Of course, I did not see him in Houston or Texas, where many, many years contributed to watering down his stats. But, like Koufax, with a limited time of incredible greatness, he had the most wow factor of the absolute greatest to ever play.
Ruth, Cobb and Mantle's cards are expensive because collectors perceive the overall greatness (statistical and non-statistical) warrants the price. How do the other similar era "better" pitchers RC's stack up to Ryan's ?
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But that's just the thing. The extra years
didn't water down Ryan's stats. What stats do you think were watered down? If you're going to make factual statements like that, I suggest that you research before posting them here, because I'll call out misinformation every time.
His career ERA plus at age 30 was 113. He retired sixteen years later with a 112 career mark. His career ERA at age 30 was 3.06. He retired with a 3.19 ERA. At age 30, he was averaging 5.6 walks per 9 IP. He brought that mark
down substantially to 4.7 per 9 innings for his career. His 9.8 K/9 IP career mark at 30 is pretty much what he ended with, a 9.5/9 IP career mark. His career FIP and WHIP at age 30 were 3.06 and 1.308, respectively. His final metrics are 2.97, and 1.247.
So, exactly what metrics of Ryans were watered down by his playing into his forties???
And what a man's rookie card goes for is no way indicative of how great a player he was. He was incredibly
popular, in part, because he lit up the gun with his speed. His no hitters were memorable games. But taken as a whole, his entire body of work just doesn't match up to the true greats of the game. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. It's great you grew up watching him play. But those other comments you made, about how he was more dominant and more electric than any other played....that's sheer conjecture and rhetoric. You're not qualified to make that statement, as you haven't watched all the pitchers who have ever played the game. And, the statistics don't bear your statement out.
Koufax might have only had five dominant years, yes. His career was cut short (after his greatest season) because he couldn't even raise his arm anymore. But those five years represents one of the greatest five year runs by any pitcher in the modern era.
111-34 (.766), 1.95 ERA, 176 starts, 100 complete games, 40 shutouts, 1,377 IP, 1,444 Ks, 167 ERA + and a 2.00 FIP.
He led the league in ERA and FIP all five seasons, and led the league in WHIP, hits/9 IP and K/9 iP in four of the five seasons. Nolan Ryan never had a season approach the level of dominance Koufax had between 1962 and 1966.
And your remark about Ryan having 26 complete games in 1973? Koufax had 27 complete games in each of his last two seasons.
In 1966, he was 27-9 with a 1.73 ERA, 27 CG, 5 shutouts, 323 IP, 317 K, only && BB, and a 190 WHIP.
His 1966 season blows Ryan's 1973 season out of the water, especially when you consider that Nolan Ryan was a right handed pitcher, and Koufax was a southpaw.
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Try all you want Seaver, Carlton, Catfish, Perry, Palmer and whoever else - you are never going to put up those kind of numbers.
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LOL, Steve Carlton....just one year earlier, had a season that blows Nolan Ryan's 1973 out of the water. Again, remember Carlton is a lefty, too.
His line in 1972: 27-10, 1.97 ERA, 41 GS, 30 CG, 8 shutouts, 346 IP, 310 K, 87 BB, a 182 ERA +.
Carlton threw thirty complete games, and 8 shutouts. His ERA + of 180 was 57 points higher than Ryan's 123 in 1973.
Tom Seaver's 1971, just two years before Ryan's 1973, also, blows Ryan's 1973 away.
20-10, 1.76 ERA, 35 GS, 21 CG, 4 shutouts, 286 IP, 289 K, 61 BB, and a 190 ERA +.
Did you even look at any of the numbers before you made these statements? Or, did you just pull them out of the air?