Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60
Led league in WAR
Willie Mays 10 times
Mickey Mantle 6 times
Ted Williams 6 times
Hank Aaron 1 time
Aaron was good at accumulating stats, but he was never looked at as the best player in the game. He never had a peak like other superstars. Greatest offensive players of all time are Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Ty Cobb. Aaron lol. If Aaron was so great, why did the Braves need to move the fences in for him?
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Jesus, seriously?
You know
the Red Sox did the same thing, moving the right field wall in 23 feet so Ted Williams could hit more home runs...right?
Quote:
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Three years later, sweet-swinging Ted Williams, a dead-pull left-handed hitter, came to Boston. The following year, 1940, bullpens were constructed in right field to bring the fence 23 feet closer to home plate for Williams. The new bullpens appropriately became known as Williamsburg.
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Welp, I guess Williams couldn't have been that great if the Red Sox had to bring the right field wall in for him.
Never mind that Hank Aaron hit nearly as many home runs on the road (370) as he did at home (385), or that he actually had a higher average on the road (.306) than he did at home (.303), or that he drove in more runs on the road (1,180) than he did at home (1,117). Yup, Hank Aaron was a product of where he played his home games. Oh wait, no he wasn't.
"He was a compiler". Huh, I thought being an elite hitter for twenty plus years was an accomplishment in and of itself. "Sorry, Hank. Didn't you know? You were supposed to hit 100 home runs in two years like Maris, and then disappear from the game a few years later, instead of being an All Star 24 times, while having eight 40 home run seasons, and fifteen thirty home run seasons." Sorry, Hank, somebody isn't impressed that you averaged 100 RBI a season for nearly a quarter century. Sorry, Hank. You're a compiler. That's why you're the all-time leader in RBIs. It has nothing to do with the fact that you were a career .323 hitter with runners in scoring position (3,564 plate appearances with RISP), or that you had a career .992 OPS with RISP.
Back to WAR for just a second. A WAR of 8 + in one season is considered an MVP-caliber season. Know how many seasons Mickey Mantle had a WAR of 8 or higher? Five. Know how many seasons Ted Williams had a WAR of 8 or higher? Seven.
Know how many seasons Hank Aaron had with a WAR of 8 or higher? Eight. Hank Aaron had one more MVP caliber season than Ted Williams, and three more MVP caliber seasons than Ted Williams. Babe Ruth only had four more MVP caliber seasons than Hank Aaron. WAR is an imperfect metric. Mickey Mantle won the American League MVP in 1962 with a WAR of 5.9. Meanwhile, Hank Aaron with a WAR of 9.4 in 1961 finished eighth in the MVP vote. When he had a 9.1 WAR in 1963, he finished third in the MVP. In 1962, his WAR was 8.5, a full two and a half points higher than Mickey Mantle's total in the AL, and Mantle won the MVP while Aaron finished sixth in the MVP.
Know what Aaron's average WAR was between ages 21 and 40? Between 1955 and 1973--19 seasons. Aaron had an annual average WAR of 7.3. Remember, an 8 WAR is MVP level. Aaron played at a near MVP level for two decades. In other words, cherry picking one metric isn't the best way to prove a spurious assertion.
Break it down comparatively:
Mantle's best four seasons: 11.3, 11.2, 10.5, 9.5.
All better than any individual season from Aaron. But then look at the best seasons from either player. A pattern emerges:
9.4, Hank Aaron, 1961
9.1, Hank Aaron, 1963
8.7, Mickey Mantle, 1958
8.5, Hank Aaron, 1962
8.5, Hank Aaron, 1967
8.0, Hank Aaron, 1957
8.0, Hank Aaron, 1960
8.0, Hank Aaron, 1969
7.8, Hank Aaron, 1965
7.8, Hank Aaron, 1966
7.3, Hank Aaron, 1958
7.2, Hank Aaron, 1971
7.1, Hank Aaron, 1956
6.9, Mickey Mantle, 1954
Though Mickey Mantle has the best four seasons, of the next thirteen best individual WAR seasons, Mickey Mantle only has one of them. One. By "WAR", with 8.0 + being an MVP season, Mickey Mantle had five truly great seasons, while Aaron had eight truly great seasons. After 1962, Mantle only had one season with so much as a 4.0 WAR. Aaron had seven seasons ahead of him with a 7.0 + WAR, including a 7.2 WAR in 1971 where Aaron hit .327 with 47 home runs and 118 RBI at age 37. Mantle was already out of the game by then. Aaron would hit 34 homers the next year at age 38, and 40 the next year at age 39.
How's this for a peak:
Between 1957 and 1963, Aaron's 162 game averages:
.323 AVG, 122 runs, 207 hits, 34 doubles, 8 triples, 42 home runs, 129 RBI, 15 stolen bases, 65 walks, 69 strike outs. Slash line of .383 OBP/.593 SLG/.975 OPS. A 167 OPS +.
Only Babe Ruth (11) has more 40 home run seasons than Aaron's eight.
Hank Aaron was in the top five in the league in runs created thirteen times. He averaged 100 RBI (actual, not on a 162 game basis) for twenty-three years!
How about the actual Hall of Fame ballots go? How many ballot-holders voted for these guys to be elected to the Hall of Fame?
Mickey Mantle: 322/365 88.2%
Ted Williams: 282/302 93.4%
Willie Mays: 409/432 94.7%
Babe Ruth: 215/226 95.1%
Hank Aaron: 406/415
97.8%
If you can't see that Hank Aaron is one of the greatest baseball players to ever play the game, then I'm not going to even waste any more of my time on you. But suffice to say, you are wrong.