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Originally Posted by MattyC
Just using the numbers is a very reductive if not specious way to grasp Mantle's stature in the sport and hobby.
But rounding out the numbers, there is his still-record WS HRs to consider. The home run is the grandest, most popular act in the sport, and he did it more often than anyone else-- on the grandest stage. No doubt this contributes to his mythic stature. Now, is this a function of being on a good team? No doubt. But he happened to be on that team and he was the one who hit all those homers. And that is what the people remember.
When looking at Mantle, one must really look beyond numbers-- though in terms of peak, in terms of career OPS+, the numbers are great. Look where America was after WWII, and how planets aligned to create a hero. Mantle's looks, the team he played for, his very name, all these factors contributed to what he became.
In later life, his flaws, the way he spoke of them, the way he touched hearts by imploring people not to follow in his footsteps-- these are things that transcend what one can find on baseball reference.
Also, Mantle's numbers and the #311 card are two separate entities. A card has qualities and significance beyond the player depicted. Otherwise how could we ever see common player cards sell for bundles? Mantle's #311 is a hobby icon. Perhaps THE hobby icon after the Honus. It is probably on more want lists than any other card. It is the headline card of perhaps the most popular set in the hobby. These are things that are not tied exactly and only to his numbers.
Looking only at stats is like looking only at grade stickers and VCP grids when valuing and evaluating cards. It can lead one to miss a lot of the intangibles.
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Mickey Mantle prices are inflated my marketing. He was a very marketed player on a very marketed team. His number one rank for WS home runs is offset by also ranking number one in strike outs. His batting average and slugging percentage in World Series play doesn't even rank top 10. He just played in more world series games.
When people that are collecting purely collecting for the history of the game and not built in hype I believe that Mantle's cards will even out. I am one that grew up in the 80s/90s when I thought Mantle was the best because that was what I was told by all the collectors around me. When I found out the truth his cards lost the allure, especially the 52 topps, there is no reason that card should out price the 52 bowman the way it does, other than hype.
That is the reason the card is where it is hype. Even you narrow it down to that:
"By almost anyone's measure, even when including pre-war cards, the 52T Mantle is likely the #2 or #3 card in the hobby (for example, PSA ranks it #2, one spot after the Wagner and one before the Ruth RC). "
"Also, as collectors who were young boys in the mid 1980's-- when the 52T card was cementing its iconic status-- enter their prime earning years, they are seeking to obtain it" (and since we are pointing out assumptions, this is one also)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyC
So is your assumption that the majority of owners of this card are people with median 2012 household income? That's where I guess I respectfully differ and see a fissure in the logic. I'd contend that the majority of owners of this card, especially the best-looking examples, are not going bust anytime soon. Also, by extension that same logic would apply to any card worth in excess of 8k. Above all, this hypothetical overextended collector may just as possibly have other cards to sell first.
I think the vast majority of the owners of this card or other $8k+ collectibles are "The Joneses," as opposed to those merely trying to keep up.
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The majority? I have no reason to believe that a majority are or aren't at median household income, but with thousands of this card out there it doesn't need to be a majority. The card isn't rare. I do believe (assume) that it is in the collection of majority of people that if funds were needed this would be the first to go to raise the funds the quickest.
It is easier for me to believe that the Wagner is only owned by the elite, because it is so rare and there aren't any original owners left (assumption). The 52 Mantle is still being found and sold from original owners or their children after the original owner passed away.
Again I just believe that as collector's are more educated about the history of the game and not just the marketing of it there will be less collector's looking for this card and, instead, looking for more rare cards. I can be wrong, and that is ok. End of the day this card is way over valued to me, as a person who cares more about the history of the game than the history of the hobby.