View Single Post
  #90  
Old 02-16-2014, 09:43 PM
the 'stache's Avatar
the 'stache the 'stache is offline
Bill Gregory
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 3,920
Default

Getting back to the Mike Schmidt vs Chipper Jones debate (if you can even call it that). Compare the two players against their peers. Schmidt was one of the dominant players in baseball in his day. Jones, though a great player, was not.

Schmidt won three MVP Awards. Jones won one. Schmidt finished third in the MVP another two times, sixth twice, and seventh once. In all, he finished in the top ten in MVP nine times. Jones finished fourth in the MVP once, sixth once, eighth once, and ninth twice. Six top ten MVP finishes in all for Jones. But only one top three MVP finish compared to five for Schmidt.

Look then at their individual seasons, and leading the league in major offensive categories. In the triple crown statistics, home runs, RBI and average, Mike Schmidt won eight home run titles. In the history of Major League Baseball, only Babe Ruth has won more home run titles (twelve) than Schmidt. Schmidt also led the National League in RBIs four times. That's twelve times Schmidt led the National League in one of the "big three".

Chipper Jones never led the National League in home runs, never led the National League in RBI, and he won one batting title.

What about other statistics?

OBP? Jones led the NL once. Schmidt three times.
Runs scored? Schmidt once. Jones never led the NL in runs scored.
Walks? Three times to none for Schmidt.
Slugging? Schmidt led four times, Jones none.
OPS? Schmidt led the NL in on base plus slugging five times. Jones once.
OPS+, which adjusts for the stadiums played in. Jones led the NL with an OPS + of 165 in 2007. Schmidt led six times in seven seasons between 1980 and 1986.

In total, Mike Schmidt led, or tied for the league lead in major statistical categories 38 times in his career. Chipper Jones, in 19 seasons, led the NL in four major statistical categories: OPS and OPS + in 2007, and batting average and OBP in 2008.

Schmidt not only won more MVP awards (three to one), had more top five MVP finishes (five to one), he also dominated the league statistically in a way that Jones never did.

Offensively, Schmidt was clearly the more dominant player in his era. And in the context of baseball history, again, only Babe Ruth has led his league in home runs more times than Mike Schmidt.

The black ink metric, which tracks how a player leads their league in important statistical categories, shows a huge gap between these two players. The average Hall of Famer has a black ink score of 27. Chipper Jones has a score of 4, 426th best of all-time. Mike Schmidt's score is 74, 11th best all-time.

WAR, which I am not a huge proponent of, clearly favors Schmidt, too. Schmidt's 106.5 career WAR is #1 all-time for third basemen. Chipper Jones has an 85.2 WAR, 5th best all-time for third basemen. Schmidt has a 7-year peak WAR of 58.6, while Jones has a best 7-year WAR of 46.6.

After looking at the offensive numbers, and how Schmidt dominated his league in both the MVP vote, and individual statistical categories, we come to defense. And there's really no debate to be had here. For his career as a third basemen, Chipper Jones has a dWAR of -1.6. Schmidt's dWAR for his career is 17.6. Mike Schmidt won 10 Gold Glove Awards. Since the Gold Glove Award was first handed out in 1957, only one third baseman, Brooks Robinson, has ever been recognized more often, winning 16 while playing third for the Baltimore Orioles. And since 1957, only seven other positional players across both leagues have won more Gold Gloves than Schmidt's ten: outfielders Roberto Clemente and Willie Mays (12 each), shortstops Ozzie Smith (13) and Omar Vizquel (11), the aforementioned Brooks Robinson (16), first baseman Keith Hernandez (11) and catcher Ivan Rodriguez (13). And of all those players, only Willie Mays offered the level of power that Mike Schmidt displayed.

I again want to make the point that I think Chipper Jones was a tremendous player, and he will be a worthy Hall of Famer. But when the different methods of comparing these two third basemen, Mike Schmidt and Chipper Jones, are employed, it is clear that Schmidt was the more dominant of the two.

Jones was an outstanding player in an era of offensive baseball. There's something to be said, of course, that Jones was able to perform at such a consistently high level in an era when many players cheated. And certainly, had those players not used performance enhancing drugs, the likelihood that Jones leads his league in more statistical categories goes up. Maybe he leads the league in home runs a time or two. Maybe he wins another batting title.

But Schmidt was clearly the premier power hitter of his era, and not only that, he is one of the game's all-time great power hitters. If the only thing he brought to the table was his power, he'd be a no brainer Hall of Famer, and would merit inclusion in the discussion of all-time greatest third basemen. But that was not the extent of his on field contributions. He was an on base machine. Though Jones has a higher career OBP, more of this component derives from Jones' batting average. Though Jones had a career batting average 33 points higher than Schmidt, his lifetime OBP is only 21 points higher. This means though Schmidt was one of the elite power hitters in baseball history, he also had a good eye at the plate, and was willing to take a walk. Jones averaged 98 walks per 162 games played for his career, an outstanding number. Schmidt was even better at 102 walks per 162 games played. And, as mentioned, Schmidt was one of the very best defensive third basemen to ever play the game. He won ten Gold Glove awards in an eleven year span. Chipper Jones could not win one though there was no clear dominant third baseman during his playing time, as nine different players won the Gold Glove at third during his career.

Chipper Jones was great. But Mike Schmidt was better.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps.

Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd.
Reply With Quote