Net54baseball.com Forums - wtb: t207 cycle back

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)

- Tobacco (T) cards, except T206 B/S/T (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)

- - wtb: t207 cycle back (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=98392)

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: Pete Z.common in good-ish condition. Have stuff to trade as well. Thanks, Pete

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: BobPete- No common exists with the Cycle back. The commons all have Recruit, Napoleon or one of the factory Anonymous backs. tbob

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: leonHey Bob, Not to really get into a discussion over here, and I hope Pete finds his card, but what do you consider a common? <img src="http://luckeycards.com/pt207groupof7backs.jpg">

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: Bobleon- Good question. The cards with Cycle, Broadleaf and Anonymous Factory backs only are definitely not "commons" and are considered scarce. That leaves the cards which were only issued with Recruit and Napoleon backs. (For purposes of this discussion, the Anonymous Factory backs, I am at work and am forgetting the number of the Factory, which are issued hypothetically on any card, common or scarce are omitted). Of that group of Recruits and Napoleon backs only, the Napoleon back is a tough back, but if we are talking only about the fronts, that entire group is generally considered a common with a few exceptions. Graham, Ellis, Kling, George and Scott are 5 which come to mind immediately which are tough, and although "commons," are hard to find, especially in nice shape. There are a few more I have forgotten off-hand (some consider Schulte tougher than normal among commons). What's particularly odd is that a few HOFers appear all the time (Marquard, etc.) Because HOFs can't technically be considered "commons" the general abundance of these cards must not be considered. So, I would consider a T207 common one with a Recruit back, not a HOFer, and not one of the 6-7 toughies. Clear as mud? If we get in to the oddball Anonymous Factory back we really open up a can of worms which would take pages to detail <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: Mike FrohmeBob has summarized it right on - as always. Tim Newcomb's VCBC articles proposed that two series of the Recruit-class cards may have been printed - the second of which was 50 subjects. The 100 remaining Recruit-class cards might be considered the "commons", though the list has a few cards that certainly aren't that easy. Whether that's the case or not, we may never know, but there are certainly degrees of difficulty in the Recruits - some of which are as hard or harder than a good # of the Broadleaf class subjects. I also agree with Bob that the Anon Factory 3 and 25's are another matter altogether. Here's that list of the remaining 100 (w/out variations) - in increasing order of Tim's "number of appearances" (i.e. approximately hardest to easiest) in his 2002-2004 (if I recall) survey - read the articles for the details and what that number means... its really good reading if you're into T207. CallahanNixey 28 KnetzerElmer 28 TooleyBert 29 GowdyHank 30 NorthenHub 30 DanforthDave 34 LappJack 34 MillerDots 34 ScanlonBill 34 SmithWally 34 StackEddie 34 StrunkAmos 34 CollinsJohn35 OakesRebel 35 BargerCy 36 DaubertJake 36 MarsansArmando 36 MorganCy 36 PaskertDode 36 SevereidHank 36 WarhopJack 36 BescherBob 37 HallinanEd 37 LordBris 37 NeedhamTom 37 O'TooleMarty 37 StanageOscar 37 ErwinTex 38 EvansLouis 38 FrommeArt 38 TannehillLee 38 BarryJack 39 CamnitzHowie 39 ClarkeTommy 39 AinsmithEddie 40 BradleyHugh 40 DerrickClaud 40 HenriksenOlaf 40 MullinGeorge 40 WilsonArt 40 DavisHarry 41 GoldenRoy 41 GraneyJack 41 McIntireHarry 41 O'BrienBuck 41 SteinfeldtHarry 41 BallNeal 42 ColeKing 42 CoulsonBob 42 KrauseHarry 42 OldringRube 42 VaughnHippo 42 KalerGeorge 43 ReulbachEd 43 DoyleLarry 44 FisherRay 44 LennoxEd 44 TinkerJoe 44 CareyMax 46 FerryJack 46 McLeanLarry 46 SimonMike 46 WheatZack 46 ChanceFrank 47 MoranPat 47 GainorDel 48 TurnerTerry 48 KonetchyEd 49 YerkesStanley 49 AustinJimmy 50 CrandallDoc 50 HarmonBob 50 LivingstonPaddy 50 OlsonIvy 50 FletcherArt 51 GardnerLarry 51 WolvertonHarry 51 CovingtonTex 52 WalkerDixie53 LathamArlie 55 McBrideGeorge 55 BeckerBeals 56 MilanClyde 56 BenderChief 57 ByrneBobby 57 DevlinArt 57 ChalmersGeorge 59 DevoreJosh 60 DelahantyJim 61 LivelyJack 61 StreetGabby 61 WilieDewey 64 SchaeferGermany 66 DooinRed 69 WiltseHooks 69 KnabeOtto 74 MarquardRube 75 BresnahanRoger 80 McGrawJohn 81 JohnsonWalter 89

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: Mike FrohmeAs an afterthought ... Leon - why is the Weaver Red Cross not in that wonderful shot? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: Tim NewcombFirst of all, thanks, Mike, for those kind words about my article. Good to know it's still on the radar with some collectors. The "common" debate: I think the term is ambiguous. It could refer to common players or to common cards within the set. Clearly there are no common Cycle backs in that second sense. Most of the players found with Cycles are, however, common. Maybe that's what the OP meant?

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: leonMy only thought on the "common" thought was that it was, as in other series, common as opposed to HOF'er. That was what I thought when I posted the scan above of the back of Birmingham, who of course, didn't make the hall. I have also read Tim N's great article written on the subject(several times) so, while I haven't memorized the article, know that many of the scarcest cards also have the most common backs, as as well as Cycle, and other more difficult backs.....anyway, sorry about that.... ps...Mike- The Weaver has his own scan <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: Rob D.Leon, When you say "his own scan," does that mean he is quarterless?

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: leonPete- hope you don't mind a little chatter in your BST thread.....maybe it will help you pick one up? Rob- no quarter in the Red Cross scan. Generally (not always) I only put the quarter in scans where the card size might not be well known....

wtb: t207 cycle back

Posted By: Michael SteelePete, I hope you do find the Cycle back card you are looking for. I know this is the B/S/T but I found the conversation above very interesting. This set is fast becoming my favorite. There is mystery, rareness (compared to the monster) and back variation debates. I have just about completed my Red Sox subset (regardless of back) and there are upwards of 20 Red Sox in the set and only 4 are listed in the 100 "common Recruit" list posted above. Meaning the rest probably fall into the perceived tough Recruit series. Tim, if your still reading, I would love to read your article(s). How could I go about finding them? Thanks in advance.