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Posted By: Lee BehrensAfter looking at the data of the Elite 8, I wondered why the Lundgren Cub was in the group. It has no 150 cards and only a few select backs. I then decided to check the "SuperSet" for data on the Lundgren KC and found very few backs exist for that card and there is cross over with the Cubs backs. Any explanations or reasoning? Has there been a survey done of the Lundgren KC variation? It seem like this minor Leaguer is different from the rest. Lee

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisLundgren (Cubs).....98% of his cards are with PIEDMONT 150 backs. Approx. 1 in 50 will be a PIEDMONT 350 back. And, 1 in approx. 1000 will be an EPDG back. Needless to say, this card is tough to find wit any back. After pitching 2 games at the start of the 1909 season, Lundgren was sent down to KC of the American Association. So, American Litho. stopped issuing his Cubs card; and therefore, his Cubs card was printed with only 3 diff. backs. Lundgren's KC card is found with only 4 diff. backs..... Piedmont 350...................90% Sweet Cap 350 Fac. 30......10% El Principe de Gales.............2% Carolina Brights.............less than 1% I can't find any record in my 1910 Reach Guide of Lundgren pitching for KC on 1909. Perhaps, some one here with a 1911 Reach or Spalding Guide has some info on his Minor Lge. record. Hope this info helps. TED Z

Posted By: Frank WakefieldLundgren first played a game for the Chicago Orphans on June 19, 1902. He pitched there for 8 years, with his last appearance on April 24th, 1909. He was 17-6 with a 2.21 ERA completing 21 of his 24 starts in 1906, and 18-7 with a 1.17 ERA completing 21 of 25 starts in 1907. But something must have happened, he's 6-9 in 15 starts with a 4.22 ERA in 1908. I don't see where he was with Kansas City in 1909. Maybe he was sold to Kansas City and he failed to report. We need someone to look at Sporting Life at the end of April and early May of 1909. Lundgren did appear in 4 games for the Eastern League's Toronto Maple Leafs in 1909. In 1910 he posted a 6-3 record pitching in 10 games for the Hartford Senators of the Connecticut State League. He also pitched in 5 games for Toronto that year. Team-mates at Toronto included Moose Grimshaw, Joe Kelley, Jim McGinley, Doc Newton and Bill O'Hara. Lungren was with the Troy Trojans of the New York State League in 1911, appearing in 31 games and posting a 13-12 record. His final year of professional play was 1911, back with Hartford, he pitched in 16 games and was 6-3. He had attended college at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. I think he coached college baseball 1921 through 1934, he succeeded Branch Ricky as Michigan's coach. He died August 21, 1934, and is buried in the Marengo City Cemetery in McHenry County, IL.

Posted By: J HullHey guys. Lee's right, Lundgren (Kansas City) is not your typical minor league T206 card. For one thing, he's the only player pictured with both a major league team and a minor league team. Secondly, he never played a game for the minor league team he's shown with. And that probably can't be blamed on a mixup at American Litho. A while ago I did some research on Lundgren. As Ted notes, Lundgren only appeared briefly with the Cubs in 1909. His final game was April 23, after which he was benched for a time while the Cubs figured out what to do with him. Around the beginning of May he was placed on waivers, claimed by Brooklyn, and some sort of deal was worked out and his rights were sold to the Superbas. This was reported in the Sporting Life. I don't believe that Brooklyn intended to use Lundgren, but through acquiring his rights and then selling him on to the minors they hoped to pocket a few dollars on the deal. At least that's what I made of their interest, since he never pitched for them and was sold to Toronto of the American Association within a few days. Lundgren's first appearance for Toronto was on May 24, 1909, and he pitched in a handful of games for them until his final appearance on June 7. By all reports he was not in good physical condition and his poor performances were blamed on that. After June 7 he was released by Toronto. The July 10 issue of Sporting Life reports that he had joined Kansas City. The Sporting Life is usually about a week or so behind in their reporting, so it's safe to assume that Lundgren, on paper, became a Kansas City player around July 1, 1909. But between that point and mid July some issue arose over Lundgren or his rights which led to a dispute between the Toronto and Kansas City clubs. As a result he never appeared for Kansas City. It's not even clear from reading about it that Lundgren ever set foot in Kansas City. The July 31 Sporting Life notes that the National Commission had awarded Lundgren to Toronto and that he was to report to that team at once. However, he sat out the remainder of the 1909 season, apparently either recovering from injury or trying to get himself into shape. He then spent some of 1910 pitching for Toronto. The interesting thing about the Lundgren (Kansas City) T206 card is that the art for it was almost certainly created in the first half of July 1909. Theres no other card of a minor leaguer that can be so precisely timed. It was also soon pulled from production once Lundgrens case was sorted out, leading to its being distributed with just a few of the 350 series brands. The Lundgren (Kansas City) card is one of the reasons that I believe that at least some of the 350 series was released in the second half of the 1909 season, perhaps as early as August 1909. Jamie

Posted By: barry arnoldVery interesting points. For some reason, I hadn't thought much about the KC 'rarity',probably because we most often focus on the Chicago card. I have the KC Carolina Brights and I know Brian W. has one but can remember very,very few others. I know Ted mentions less than 1% are around; i'm wondering if it's even less than that. best, barry

Posted By: AnonymousNow this is why I come to this forum. Thanks to all above for the information. BTW, my Lundgren KC is an EPDG. edit - whoops, I had a brain freeze, its a Cubs not KC, sorry.

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI have both Lundgren cards with all their backs except for the KC version one with the Carolina Brights back. I've seen many, many Lundgren (KC) cards; but, never the Carolina Brights version. I'll modify my info to ref- lect that the CB card is 0.2%. Best regards ole buddy, TED Z

Posted By: barry arnoldTed, many thanks! i remember thinking to myself several months ago that the KC Carolina must be especially rare when Tarheel B.W. wanted to buy mine if i ever decided to part with it. More recently, he displayed his own beaut on this board. Now hearing that you've neither owned nor seen one makes me truly believe the ole KC CB is getting rarer by the minute. all the best, ole friend barry

Posted By: Frank WakefieldSo what would be the order for a chronological list of players who had T206 card production halted??? 1- Wagner 2- Plank 3- Lundgren?? Seems certain that American Litho starts with a Lundgren Chicago card. Then AL changes it to Lundgren Kansas City. Then that card too is halted because he's injured or is refusing to report, or both... by 1910 Lundgren is pitching in the Connecticut State League, dropping him off of AL's player radar.

Posted By: Eric S.Now I'm just a Jarhead but I'm confused as to the rarity of the "Cubs" Lundgren with the 350 Piedmont back. It is more rare than the 150's but obviously not as rare as the "KC" EPDG back? I have four and all are Cubs, three are PD150's and one PD350. My current focus is the Cub's with all back variations and you guys have thrown another rock in the quest. Thanks alot!!!! Thanks for the topic.

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisBoth Lundgren cards are found with the EPDG back. The Cubs version is super rare with this back. The KC version with EPDG is tough to find; but, no where near as tough as the Cubs card. TED Z

Posted By: Eric S.Ted, Thanks for the clarification. I'm still on track with my search for the Cubs EPDG. For Lundgren to be in the top 8 should there be an "*" stating that only with EPDG? I've not found this card all that difficult to source with the exception of the EPDG back.

Posted By: hennesseyjust an observation, a couple years ago a lundgren cub epgd back sold for about $900 at the louisville REA aution. Believe this last aution i saw the ludgren card sold for $600 which i thought was a steal. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

Posted By: Eric S.I'm not aware of that sell. Could've been just one of those deals but can't imagine it was missed by so many. I think it's time to update the list of Lundgrens and see what's floating around our collections. If Ted is reading.......has this been done recently?

Posted By: Lee BehrensScot, With this information does it change where you would put the KC version in the ranking of toughest cards and is the KC version the toughest of the nonSLers ? Lee

Posted By: Scot Reader Lee, Lundgren (K.C.) is a tough subject to be sure, but I certainly would not rank it as the toughest non-SLer. Piedmont 350 and Sweet Caporal 350/30 are the most common 350-only backs and Lundgren (K.C.) likely experienced a full print with both [my survey data, at least, don't show a shortage of Lundgren (K.C.) with these backs]. The fact that the K.C. version is not available with some of the more difficult backs (e.g. AB350 frame, BL350, Drum, Sov350, PB, Tolstoi) makes it tougher than a typical 350-only subject, but the Chicago version (which is only possible with Piedmont 150 and in very limited quantities with Piedmont 350 and EPDG) is tougher. Also, bifurcated 150/350 subjects that were printed in more limited quantities with 350 backs [e.g. Elberfeld (Washington Portrait) and Dahlen (Brooklyn)] are also more difficult in my view. Scot

Posted By: Lee BehrensTo clarify my question, is the KC version the toughest on the non-SLer minor leaguers. Lee