Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Just another one of my wild theories....I consider the BROWN lettered Southern League OLD MILL backs as "printing<br /> freaks"......and, not an intended design variation by American Lithographic.<br /><br />1st....The backs of all T206 T-brands were pre-printed on sheets of cardboard and then the multi-color fronts were<br /> printed on these sheets.<br />Consider the following: 42 of the 48 Southern Leaguers (SL) were issued in mid-1909 concurrent with the 150 Series<br /> Subjects. These 42 SL were printed on the Brown HINDU backs and then on the OLD MILL (SL) backs.<br /> <br />Given all that, my conjecture is that during the transition from printing of the Brown HINDU cards to the OLD MILL, on <br />occasion the printer inadvertently applied the BROWN ink (instead of the BLACK ink) on the printing plates. Apparently,<br /> this printing mistake was limited to an initial press run and very few Brown OLD MILL's got out into the marketplace.<br /> <br /><br /><img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/abkbrownoldmill.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/aasolgoldmillhindu.jpg"><br /><br /><br />Now, any one of you can punch holes in this theory if you can produce a Brown OLD MILL back on any one of the<br /> following six SL cards. These six Texas League Subjects were issued after the production runs of the Brown HINDU<br /> cards had ended. <br /><br />Bastian<br />Miller (Dallas)<br />Smith (Shreveport)<br />Stark<br />Thebo<br />White (Houston)<br /><br />OK, you lucky Net54er's that have Brown OLD MILL Southern Leaguers....why not show or tell us about your cards ?<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br />

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>bigfish</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />that theory seems logical. Either way, these cards are super scarce and are the bees knees.

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>I agree, TRex.<br />They should go in the ERRATA section.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Sometimes I wonder if the old lithographers and printers are looking down at us and having a collective chuckle over all these ponderings. There is no way they could have foreseen any value placed on such material. <br /><br />Either way, it's an interesting theory. One wonders if there was truly any rhyme or reason to many of the ink selections, other than that black would be the most natural choice for the backs. I would bet that less thought was put into it back then than the time collectors of today invest into figuring it out.

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Levy</b><p>Ahhh rare back T206s one of my favorite subjects. I think Ted might be on to something. Another interesting feature is that most of the OM browns are handcut or at least thinner on the sides.<br /><br />I bet that 100 years ago it was as simple as <br />Q "Boss, I ran out of black ink, should we shut down the press".<br />A "Nah, keep running it, we're almost done....just use the brown"

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>samuel</b><p>I agree...I'm not clear on how brown ink could be accidentally applied though, as far as the mechanics of the printer. I would say it was human error. but I know nothing about the printers used.

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>I don't recall what Southern Leaguers are on your Brown OLD MILL cards....please inform us ?<br /><br />Thanks much,<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br /><br /><br />

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />Exactly. <br><br>Jodi

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Jim Rivera</b><p>Dutch Revelle

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>Who is the Southern Leaguer on the brown OLD MILL you sent me a scan of ?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br />

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>bigfish</b><p>Bernard

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>Good start, we have......<br /><br />Bernhardt<br /><br />Revelle<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br />

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Levy</b><p>Reagan

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Hi Ted,<br />I used to own a T206 Thornton, Mobile with Brown Old Mill back. Here is an old scan:<br /><br /><img src="http://members.aol.com/rebelsart2000/ombrown.jpg">

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Art, your scan looks like a faded black, not a brown. The paper color is entirely different as well as the print on a true Brown and all are hand cut. I suspect 1 sheet existed and was neatly hand cut years ago. Dan.

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Jerry</b><p>I own a Revelle with a brown old mill back.<br /><br />I believe that there may have been 3 sheets of Brown Old Mills printed. The reason for this being I have also seen scans of a Brown Old Mill with the single red overprint bar and have also seen a picture of a double overprint with red bars in a book entitled "Most Valuable Baseball Cards" by Christopher Benjamin. The picture in this book is not extremely large, but the print definitely looks brown rather than black.<br /><br />I would assume that the printer wouldn't mix different overprint bars on a single sheet. Thus, 3 possible sheets were produced.<br /><br />As you can see there is a strong tie between the old mill brown back and the even more rare red overprint backs because the printer must have printed these at approximately the same time. The overprint could have been added at a later date, but realistically speaking it doesn't make sense that the printer would have printed the brown backs and just sat on them until the overprint was added at a much later point in time.<br /><br />I also believe that the brown backs were produced before the introduction of the Texas League players because I have never been able to confirm one of these players with a brown back. <br /><br />PS - I once owned the Thornton mentioned by Art. I can tell you it was brown and not faded black.<br /><br />Jerry

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Where is the Thornton now? I say no way that is a true Brown Jerry. I would like to see it scanned against your Revelle. Dan.

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>I wonder if it's as simple as the overprints were tested on incorrectly printed sheets, then the printer brought the sheets home and cut 'em up with the kiddies.<br /><br />I also wonder sometimes if the cards were redeemed for prizes or freebies at some tobacconists or newsstands, hence some (not all, some) of the back stamps that are seen being used for "cancellation" purposes.

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Dan,<br /> I agree that the scan from Jerry looks "faded Brown", but I know that Jerry has probably owned as many "Brown Old Mill's" as anyone in the Hobby. Of course you and Pops could always prove me wrong, as your collections are incredible. I will say that I used to own the Revelle before Jerry and that it is very difficult to scan the difference between Brown and Black unless Wonka is around. <br /> For the record... I would take Jerry's word on the Thornton, just as I would take yours, Art's or Ted's... Be well Brian<br /><br />PS I know I left a few people out, but it wasn't on purpose...

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>No we are beat in this category. Have only owned 2. Is Jerry the gent that won the Lipset lot that had a brown in it? I talked to the fellow that out bid me on that lot and he sold the Brown to someone almost immediately. I think I know Jerry or have talked to him. Dan

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> Hi Dan,<br /> That was me baby... I won the Lipset lot and traded the Revelle to Jerry a few months later. Jerry... Hi... Jerry is a low key guy with an awesome collection who has handled and written about a lot of rare issues.<br /> Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS Hi Dan... He probably feels the same way you and I do about UNC items... Be well Brian<br /> <br /><br /> PS 2 So Jeff doesn't go crazy... I meant UNC as uncatalog versus the Tarheels...smiley

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>That is right! thanks B, my memory is horrible but I was at least close on this one ah? Yes I emailed or talked to Jerry after that. Very nice guy with amazing stuff and a wealth of knowledge. Small World ah?

Perhaps, T206 Brown OLD MILL's are just printer's freaks ?
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> You got it.... I wish we would have had more time for a few Beers and a chat at the National... At least the basement wasn't flooding....<br /><br /> Talk to you soon. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS I doubt more than 20 "real Brown Old Mill" backs exist... And I even questioned the "Brown" before I owned one...<br /><br /><br />PS 2 I'll check my records tomorrow for other known "Browns", but I think I only have one on the list that hasn't been posted.<br /><br />PS 3 Hi Dan, I thought I had a great Memory until I turned 40... <br /><br />