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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Roger Clemens is universally considered one of the very few top starting pitchers of all time, and of course pitched well into his 40s. Without looking, guess where he ranks on the all time complete game list.

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>I know that I don't know. But I did hear that he once won a Cy Young award without pitching a complete game that season, so I figure that it is on the lower end of the list.

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Posted By: <b>John H.</b><p>Certainly nowhere near the top. Somewhere between 200 & 300, I'd guess.

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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br />The future ain;t what it used to be<br /><br />The infamous Yogi Berra quota certainly applies <br />to complete games<br /><br />Whilst we have no idea where Mr. Clemens ranks on<br />this list (somewhere in the mid 300's, we would guess)<br />we do recall that of the top 25 all time leaders in complete<br />games only 5 pitchers worked exclusively in the 20th century<br /><br />If we recall correctly, 60% of the top 25 all time leaders in complete<br />games never pitched in the Major Leagues after 1900.<br /><br />By the way, an additional trivia question (without looking) who is<br />the only pitcher among the top 25 in complete games who any member<br />of the Board (living or dead for that matter) ever saw pitch in person.<br /><br />Hint: Enjoy your Cookies and Milk when you think about that one.<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>..........still considered one of the greatest of all time. Don't know, just asking. I have no idea of the answer, great question.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>The answer to yours must be Spahn.

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Posted By: <b>John H.</b><p>Warren Spahn

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Seeing Mr. Spahn's name reminds me of the emails I get from Baseball Library, about today in baseball type stuff.<br /><br /><br />A few weeks ago some writer was spouting off about how baseball players weren't heroes, how the guys who hauled a handicapped co-worker down the steps on 9-11 were heroes, but ball players weren't. How no ballplayer would compare to what those co-workers did.<br /><br />I emailed the writer. (Of course, to no avail.) I suggested that before he spouts off that no baseball player has ever been a hero, that he should consider the military service record of Mr. Spahn. A Bronze Star for bravery, multiple Purple Hearts, was awarded a battlefield commission, he fought at the Battle of the Buldge. <br /><br />I watched for a few days to see if the writer backpeddled any. He didn't. Not even an email. I'm afraid to check to see if he is in the BBWA so he can vote for HOF elections. I suspect he is, and that partially explains why it is such a screwed up place.<br /><br /><br />At any rate, I consider Clemens a good pitcher. Not great. But very good. I can't imagine he's among the top 100 in complete games. I'm pretty sure Cy Young is first. Johnson should be in the top ten. That Powell guy who pitched in both leagues in St. Louis finished most of his games, he should be way up there. I liked Bob Gibson, I bet he's got more complete games than Clemens... but of course Gibson was one of the great starting pitchers of all time, in my mind.

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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br /><br />Yes Warren Spahn is the correct answer.<br /><br />There are only three other pitchers any of us could have seen rank in the top 50<br /><br />We were lucky to have seen each of them pitch (against the Yanks or Mets)<br /><br />Robin Roberts<br />Gaylord Perry<br />Early Wynn<br /><br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind <br />America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Bruce was very close, so I will publish the answer. Clemens is tied for 327th. Ahead of the two other great pitchers of the last 20 years, Maddux and Randy Johnson, by the way.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Good question, Bruce!<br /><br />I've now checked the list of the top 100...<br /><br />I saw (not counting Feller in an Old Timers game)<br /><br />382 19th Spahn<br />303 37th Perry<br />267 61st Jenkins<br />255 71st t Gibson<br />254 73rd Carlton<br />245 83rd t Niekro<br />244 88th t Marichal<br />231 97th t Seaver<br /><br />I think I saw Roberts on the field for the Cubs in 1966, but did not see him pitch.<br /><br />And I recall a game I saw in St. Louis when Spahn pitched for the Giants, the Cardinals substituted catchers, then the one in the game got hurt, and there was quite a delay while the Cards hunted for someone who could catch. The finally settled on Mike Shannon. And they gave him some time to get settled in with the tools of ignorance.

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>In the modern era managers do not ride starters into the late innings as they used to. Once relief pitching became an accepted part of the game the days of pitchers throwing 200+ pitches were sure to end. Whether a pitcher completes a game is hardly an accurate reflection of his skills; it is more a reflection of managerial decisionmaking and styles, the logic being that if you have a Dennis Eckersley or Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman available why would you let a guy finish an average game? Tom Seaver barely cracks the top 100 in complete games and he's certainly among the greatest who ever played. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>Dan P.</b><p>Robin Roberts was mentioned in this thread. I got hooked on baseball when my parents took me to a Phillies game on my 8th birthday (8/25/1959) against the Dodgers (Roberts was the Phillie starter). Can anyone name the 11 Hall of Famers in the park for that game? (Roberts was one, so you have to come up with 10 more)

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Duke Snider<br />Richie Ashburn<br />Walt Alston<br />Sandy Koufax<br />Don Drysdale<br />Sparky Anderson<br /><br />Off the top of my head.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Roberts, Ashburn, Sparky, Koufax, Drysdale, Reese (as coach), Alston, Snider. What others were there? Perhaps a Phillies coach and a couple of umps I'm missing? I'm short by three.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>Vin Scully

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Did O'Malley make an appearance?

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Philly- Sparky, Ashburn and Roberts<br /><br />Dodgers- Snider, Drysdale, Koufax<br /><br />Dodgers Coaches- Alston, Reese<br /><br />Dodger Brass- O'Malley<br /><br />Announcer- Scully<br /><br />2nd Base Umpire- Jocko Conlon

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Alston was Dodger manager at that point.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Sorry Bob. I live in Texas and we're in football season. I was thinking of Alston as the Head Coach! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Even an old Dodger fan like myself, can understand that! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Dan P.</b><p>JimVB is right--I forgot O'Mally got in this year so ha makes 12 (the one you missed was By Saam, Phillie announcer, but otherwise your list is correct)

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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>I don't think By Saam has been elected to the Hall of Fame. He was awarded the Ford Frick award by the Hall but this is separate from enshrinement.

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Posted By: <b>Dan P.</b><p>The question was "hall of famers in the park" so it doesn't matter how the guy got there. I just noticed that we also forgot Vin Scully, Dodger broadcaster.