"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />We find it ironic, indeed, that this ultra rare piece of baseball<br />sheet music (issued in 1914 to honor the arrival of the Chicago Feds) <br />- a prized piece in our memorabilia collection ...so accurately describes<br />this year's unexpected special visitors to the National Convention<br /><br />Please see the August 1, 2008 New York Daily News story below<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br /><br /><br />Feds crash National Sports Collectors Convention, hand out subpoenas<br />BY TERI THOMPSON AND MICHAEL O'KEEFFE<br />DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITERS<br />Friday, August 1st 2008, 5:35 PM<br /><br />Federal investigators crashed the National Sports Collectors Convention in Rosemont, Ill., on Thursday and Friday, delivering subpoenas to several hobby executives to appear before a grand jury that is hearing evidence about fraud in their industry.<br />Agents from the FBI and United States Postal Service also questioned other dealers and authenticators at the National, the hobby's largest annual memorabilia show.<br />"This is part of an active federal investigation," said a source familiar with the probe. "I think they came to the National because they knew everybody would be here, all under one roof. It's like shooting ducks in a barrel."<br />As the Daily News first reported in July 2007, the Chicago division of the FBI, whose "Operation Foul Ball" smashed a multi-state autograph forgery ring during the 1990s, last year initiated an investigation into Illinois-based Mastro Auctions, sports memorabilia's largest auction house.<br />"The FBI has been walking the convention floor," said American Memorabilia president Victor Moreno. "You can feel the tension."<br />The visits from federal agents came as Mastro Auctions officials were preparing for the big live auction the company conducts in conjunction with the National.<br />"No more business as usual," said Chicago collector Michael Gidwitz, who was interviewed by the FBI several months ago. "An unregulated business like this, it brings in a lot of unscrupulous people. This needed to be done a long time ago."<br />Gidwitz, who became the first person to sell a baseball card for more than $1 million when he sold a T206 Honus Wagner once owned by NHL legend Wayne Gretzky to collector Brian Seigel in 2000 for $1.27 million, said he was victimized several times by one-time friend Bill Mastro, Mastro Auctions chairman. Those allegations first appeared in "The Card," a book about the T206 Wagner by two Daily News reporters that was published last year.<br />The Gretzky T206 Wagner, known in hobby as "the Holy Grail," was "discovered" by Bill Mastro in the 1980s. It was graded PSA-8 (on a scale off 1-10) by Professional Sports Authenticators, a card-grading service, even though one of the original authenticators acknowledged the company knew the card had been altered, a major violation of vintage card protocol. The book apparently hasn't affected the price: The Wagner was sold to an anonymous collector last year for $2.8 million through SCP Auctions, which owned a minority stake in the card. SCP, however, has never produced evidence that a transaction actually took place.<br /><br />Mastro and auction house president Doug Allen did not return phone calls for comment. Nor did Randy Mastro, Mastro's brother and attorney who was a deputy mayor under Rudy Giuliani. A Justice Department spokesman in Chicago said he could not confirm or deny an investigation had been initiated.<br />Hobby executives who have talked to the agents in the past year say the agents have asked about "shill bidding," when an aucton house or a consignor enters fake bids on an item in order to drive up the price.<br />Investigators have also expressed interest in a North Carolina warm-up shirt sold at the live auction Mastro's company held at the National last year. The shirt was advertised as a Michael Jordan-owned item, even though Memorabilia Evaluation and Research Services, a leading authentication firm, concluded another player's name - Ranzino Smith - had been ripped from the back and repaced with "JORDAN."<br />The shirt sold for $11,000 and although Mastro Auctions eventually voided the sale, it renewed calls for greater regulation of the dog-eat-dog world of sports memorabilia and attracted attention from the FBI.<br />Investigators have also questioned Bill Brandt, the president of Development Specialists Inc., the company hired by the state of Ohio to liquidate coins and collectibles purchased with state money by Tom Noe, the Republican Party official convicted in 2006 of stealing from a $50 million workers compensation fund and sentenced to 18 years in prison. Noe had purchased thousands of dollars worth of memorabilia from Mastro, Brandt and Ohio law-enforcement officials have said. Mastro Auctions repurchased the memorabilia back from the state of Ohio in December for $2.5 million.<br />Leon Luckey of Brockelman and Luckey Auctions said he is believes allegations of wrongdoing have unfairly bruised what he calls "a good hobby." Luckey, who also moderates Network 54, a popular vintage card Web forum, said he hosted a dinner Thursday night for 135 collectors and dealers attending the show.<br />"We had a great time, laughing and telling stories," Luckey said. "If someone has done something wrong, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law but it is a shame that it casts a negative light on the hobby. I love baseball and I love cards, but this hobby is all about the people you meet."<br /><br />

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>B D</b><p>any of these guys raise cocks for fighten!<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p>There are only five known copies of the "Feds Are Here to Stay"<br /><br />One in the Franklin Steele Hall of Fame Collection<br />One in The Dorskind Collection<br />One in The Library of Congress Collection<br />Two in other "private" collections<br /><br /><br />For those of you, interested in looking at said sheet music, we suggest<br />you visit the link below<br /><br /><a href="http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200033372/default.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200033372/default.html</a><br /><br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think we should all thank Leon for putting a positive spin on an otherwise dreary story.<br /><br />Does the Daily News ever care about anything other than all the negative aspects of this hobby? They sure do have an axe to grind.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Barry, what would have been a positive spin on a pending federal criminal investigation? And why is the Daily News to blame for simply reporting what occurred? Perhaps the newspaper should stop reporting on all American deaths in Iraq too?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>There is nothing wrong with reporting the news. But the best way to present it is by giving a more balanced story. Say all you want about the fraud in the hobby; I for one have long recognized how fraudulently business has been conducted in the sports memorabilia field. It's an unregulated industry that has attracted numerous fringe dealers who find it easy to make a quick buck.<br /><br />But even I am a little tired of the one trick pony that the Daily News offers its readers (it is a rag newspaper, you know). At least Leon offered another way to look at things.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>What is a more balanced story? It seems the News gave Mastro et al the opportunity to provide that balance and it declined. Don't blame the media for reporting a factual story in which it gave all sides the opportunity to respond. And if the News is a rag and the Post is a rag, which newspaper in NYC isn't a biased rag -- the New York Times?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Well all newspapers are biased- they have a loyal readership and that's to whom they are reporting. I just don't find the Daily News to offer very interesting news. In that respect the NY Times is the best newspaper we have. If you don't like its liberal bent, that's fine- but it's still the best written paper in the city.<br /><br />And I agree with you that it is fair for them to report the bad things going on in the hobby. But here's my point, and why I don't agree with your Iraq analogy: there is nothing good about the war, everything about it is negative; but our hobby, despite all the bad things that are going on, still has many good things too. I'm sure you have found good, otherwise you wouldn't be buying all those baseball cards.<br /><br />So many people who are at the show have been posting what a great time they are having and all the great rarities they have been fortunate to see. Isn't that also part of the National experience (hey Jeff, keep it coming, we haven't had a good fight on the board in a long time)?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>I wonder if some of the dealers were scurrying around pulling the fake stuff from their display cases? This is long overdue. It would have been nice if a couple of the dealers had been taken away in handcuff's. I love this hobby, but I run across WAYYYY too many fake cards, auto's, and memorabilia. <br /><br />Rick

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br />As long time collectors (active in rare baseball material for more<br />than three decades) it is certainly sad to see that fraud in our<br />hobby has reached the point, where Federal Agents have to<br />spend their time and our tax dollars investigating a group<br />of prominent hobby dealers.<br /><br />However, this should not come as a surprise to anyone.<br /><br />In a hobby which generates several hundred million dollars a year<br />in cash flow, one can hardly be surprised to learn that greed and crime<br />reared their ugly heads.<br /><br />We should be forever grateful that the Feds are investigating.<br />Let us hope they catch those who have committed the crimes<br />and that said criminals are sent away for a long, long time.<br /><br />As for the Daily News, we think the article was accurate and<br />that it clearly reported the story...which was crime in a hobbby<br />that many of its readers treasure. The National Convention, whist<br />a wonderful experience for the advanced collector (and the host<br />city resident), is far less important in the scope of things than<br />identifying the problem and catching the criminals.<br /><br />Whilst we agree with Mr. Sloate that The Times is a strong and<br />wonderful newspaper (albeit liberal to the point of being shameful),<br />this story in The New York Daily News was well and accurately reported.<br />In our view it attempted (in its interview with Mr. Luckey) to cover<br />the "good side" of the hobby.<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Barry, your lefty leanings are shining through -- believe it or not, there are some people in America who think that something positive is going on in Iraq such as, say, destroying terrorists and their networks -- can you imagine? As for the News, why should they report about all the nice things in the hobby when the article clearly is reporting a pending federal criminal investigation? What nice things should they have thrown in such an article? The sharp corners on the last card I bought? The fact that Bill Mastro is a snappy dresser? Barry, you're just overly sensitive because the article and the investigation hits too close to home for you. The fact is, a criminal investigation into fraud in our hobby is a good thing.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>A criminal investigation is a good thing...but why does the article hit too close to home for me? Please explain.<br /><br />I should have added, and I don't want to get this too off track, is that most of the terrorists we should rightfully be frightened of are in Afghanistan, not Iraq. We're in the wrong country. I'm all for a build up in Afghanistan, buit we no longer have available troops.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Barry, you just made my point. You're so overly sensitive you're inferring that my comment somehow suggested something sinister about your own business affairs! My 'too close to home' comment referred to the fact that bad news/fraud/arrests in our hobby/your business will have a negative impact on your business.<br /><br />Edited to add: yes, Barry, you are correct. Terrorists in Iraq are not very scary; the ones in Afghanistan are the ones that keep me up at night.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't think it will affect my business. I am who I am, and if somebody out there is doctoring cards, shilling bids, or selling bad autographs, it has nothing to do with me. I can only control my business, and not my peers.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jeff- you have too busy a schedule to be kept up at night by thoughts of terrorists. I suggest getting a good night's sleep.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Barry, if the hobby is negatively impactetd by the revelation of major fraud in the auction world your prices will be affected, plain and simple.<br /><br />As for worrying about terrorists, you're right. I apologize for engaging in the politics of fear. I will now forget 9/11 happened. I feel much better.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>samuel</b><p>this makes me wonder if I'm out of my depth as I begin to collect more valuable cards.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Let's agree to let this terrorist discussion die, because it's starting to get a little ugly.<br /><br />A major scandal could affect my business, if it means that large numbers of collectors decide they have had enough and drop out of the hobby.<br /><br />But if a handful of bad eggs are handcuffed, and perp walked out of the Convention Center, I don't think it's going to impact what I do.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>"There are only five known copies of the "Feds Are Here to Stay"<br /><br />One in the Franklin Steele Hall of Fame Collection<br />One in The Dorskind Collection<br />One in The Library of Congress Collection<br />Two in other "private" collections<br /><br /><br />For those of you, interested in looking at said sheet music, we suggest<br />you visit the link below<br /><br /><a href="http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200033372/default.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200033372/default.html</a>"<br /><br />I, for one, would like to see <i>your</i> copy, Bruces.<br /><br />Please?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>"believe it or not, there are some people in America who think that something positive is going on in Iraq such as, say, destroying terrorists and their networks -- can you imagine?"<br /><br />Do you really believe, Jeff, that destroying the terrorist networks that <i>did not exist before we invaded</i> is something positive?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />David:<br /><br />We find your request to be quite strange.<br /><br />Our copy of The Feds Are Here To Stay<br />looks just like The Library of Congress Copy.<br /><br />It appears ours is in a bit stronger condition.<br /><br />We also have the only known copy of<br />Come Out Where The Buffalo Feds Play.<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br /><br />

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, I think it depends upon whether you considered Saddam a terror network unto himself, right? Otherwise, you're right. Since the terror networks didn't exist before the war started best that we just leave them alone now to do their thing. (Keep in mind that in retrospect I think the war was a mistake)

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>"We also have the only known copy of<br />Come Out Where The Buffalo Feds Play."<br /><br />Well, since it's the only known copy, and cannot be seen anywhere else, how 'bout you show it to us?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>"Since the terror networks didn't exist before the war started best that we just leave them alone now to do their thing."<br /><br />I never said that, did I, Jeff?<br /><br />I'd just like to know how spending $10B/month (not counting the unbelievably large costs further down the line, like long term medical care for tens of thousands of men and women) in order to <i>first create</i> and then destroy terrorist groups (while the real enemy strengthens in Afghanistan and Pakistan), can be considered a positive thing.<br /><br />

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>With due respect to Barry and Leon, the fact that there are positive aspects to our hobby is a nonsequitur in my opinion. The subject of the story is an ongoing criminal investigation, and I don't see why such a story needs to be "balanced" any more than a story about a murder should also point out that a number of people had a good day.<br /><br />Also it should be obvious to everyone by now that Bruce, as is his absolute right, does not wish to share scans of his collection, so what is the point of continuing to attack him for not doing so?<br /><br />

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"Do you really believe, Jeff, that destroying the terrorist networks that did not exist before we invaded is something positive?"<br /><br />Don't your words imply that you believe that doing such a thing is negative?<br /><br />

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>This thread really went off on an odd tangent. I can see how it veered, but can't we stick to hobby-related issues in this thread? (I know, I know; the king of off-topic posts making such a request is a tad preposterous, but I hope that most of you would also like to see this very important topic stay on track.)<br /><br />And Barry, of course these current goings-on won't affect your business--it goes without saying that dealers whose upstanding reputation precedes them will remain unaffected. Perhaps they might even experience an upsurge in business, as word-of-mouth spreads quickly. Many might turn their backs on the companies being investigated (should any wrongdoing prove to be true), opting instead to give their business to dealers without numerous decrepit skeletons in their closet.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, O'Keeffe gave certain parties the opportunity to have their say in his article and put a happy spin on the story; they declined to do so. Perhaps Doug will come out here and tell us that all is well again. Or maybe he'll again report that there is no such federal investigation as he did once before on this board?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Peter- fair enough, that story doesn't need to be balanced. And I admire O'Keeffe's book "The Card", and appreciate all that he revealed about the seamy side of our hobby.<br /><br />But he clearly has it in for Mastro, and only seems to appear when Mastro Auctions is in trouble.<br /><br />I'm all for ridding the hobby of fraud; but this guy is getting on my nerves a little.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yeah, Barry, O'Keeffe has it in for Mastro because he reported the existence of a federal criminal investigation. Tell me, do you think O'Keeffe is not reporting on other federal criminal investigations in the hobby and is just focusing on Mastro? <br /><br />And furthermore, O'Keeffe has a life outside of reporting about Mastro. Believe it or not, he does write about other topics -- they're just not posted here.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Yes, Jeff. Doing such a thing--creating an enemy and then destroying it--is a negative. It is stupid, wasteful of resources, and most importantly, <i>lives</i> . And it allows our real enemies to grow unchecked.<br /><br />What I never said was that once created (due to our unbelievable stupidity and hubris--remember how Cheney assured us that the Iraqis would be dancing in the streets and placing flowers in our gun muzzles) they should not be destroyed.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>David, I respect you and your opinion and suspect we are not too far off; let's just leave it at that on this thread.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Agreed.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jeff- you're probably right about O'Keeffe, he's just calling it as he sees it. I guess it just hit me the wrong way this morning.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>On the real topic of this thread, I have to agree with Jeff and Jodi.<br /><br />Investigating the fraud in this industry--and making it public that the industry <i>is</i> being investigated--can only help us all in the long run.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>I only wish O'Keeffe was better at what he does and was able to more persuasively document all the card alteration that goes on, and (in my opinion) ends up in slabs.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, O'Keeffe is just a country reporter; give him subpoena power and he could be dangerous - unless his targets destroy all their records.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>john</b><p>I find it laughable that anyone would throw Mastro in a negative light, much less a Federal investigation. I have left bids on high end items only to wake the following morning and realize I won it for many bids below my ceiling. Everyone should get in line and kiss Bill Mastros ass for making the industry what it is. I know some board members will take offense to my support of Mastro...so be it. If it weren't for Bill, this hobby of ours would be stuck in the 80's.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>John- I had a lot of fun in this hobby in the 80's..I actually think it was a good era for collecting baseball cards.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Agreed. It was so much more fun back then. Then again, I was fresh to the hobby at that time, and soaked everything up in a way that only a youngster can.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>2 quick points.<br /><br />1) How cool is it to be an FBI agent assigned to this case.<br /><br />2) How far behind is the IRS from a tax exasion standpoint?

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>So you're saying that if it weren't for Bill Mastro I'd have 300+ Joba Chamberlain rookie cards and ignoring the fact that I can pick up T206 cards for $5 each...and maybe a Babe Ruth game bat for less than a thousand dollars?<br /><br />Thanks Bill!!!! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> &lt;---------------------NOTICE----------

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>John, no offense taken at your post; however, I did throw up a little bit in my mouth upon reading it.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>john</b><p>Sorry you threw up Jeff.....I distinctly remember those cheap Xeroxed auction catalogs in the mail from EVERYONE. It seemed when Mastro/Steinbech came on the scene everyone, as my dad would say...got their **** together. Who, besides Mastro, continues to produce high quality auctions? Their nearest competitor does 4-5 million, less than half their take. Doug Allen is first class all around as well as Bill. Yes, everyone has an opinion regarding Bill. When you play at that level, you can't please everyone.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Who else? REA, Heritage, and Hunt certainly give Mastro healthy competition. I would say that Hunt pulls their own against Mastro, and has them beat for memorabilia.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>John- couldn't you make an argument that the hobby was more fun when things were a little more affordable? It was friendlier, more low key, just a real enjoyable hobby.<br /><br />Today, everything is very high tech and godawful expensive. Is that better? I just don't know.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>john</b><p>Rob is most certainly 2nd and first class all around. In terms of consistent volume, I think the numbers speak for themselves. I would put Rob in front of Hunt in terms of memorabilia, IMO. Seems he continues to come up with fresh material.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>john</b><p>Barry-i'd love to have paid 15,000 for the Wagner last night...1981 prices. Going to the gas station and grocery store was more fun then as well . I hear what you're saying. I never had more fun than opening wax boxes from the mid 80's. My mother would threaten to throw away anything that was left in the den regarding my cards. To test her, I left out a Nelson Briles 1973 Topps in the middle of the floor. She told me she threw it away but I found it on top of the refigerator later that day!! I knew she loved me then.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>That auctions are of high quality has nothing to do with whether they are, or are not, infected by fraud in the bidding process. We certainly should reserve judgment, as at this stage there has not even been an indictment much less a conviction or plea, but let's not confuse the issues.

"The Feds Are Here To Stay"
 

Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>To follow up on Peter's on-the-mark comment, anecdotal evidence like "I won my lots for far less than my ceiling bids" is just that: anecdotal.<br /><br />Edited to add: On the flip side, saying something like "I always win lots with my ceiling bids maxed out" proves almost as little.