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Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p>Last evening's Goodwin Auction once again underscores the<br />importance of ultra high grade pre-War baseball cards.<br /><br />Cut throat competition, led by the three whales, drives prices<br />to new heights with each and every auction.<br /><br />When an extremely rare card appears in an ultra high grade<br />it achieves a record price each and every time.<br /><br />Should one be so fortunate to be offering a card that is both<br />of interest to, but not owned by all three of the Whales,<br />the sky is the limit<br /><br />No doubt one of the whales acquired the Tip Top Mr. Flynn in PSA 7<br />for $11,238.88, That is about 5 times the price realized for any <br />common Tip Tops in previous auctions.<br /><br />The E 97's in PSA 6 went for 1.5 times the average of the last 10 transactions<br />shown on Vintage Card prices.<br /><br />The unquenchable thirst for "quality" will continue to drive this hobby<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>When will the Group be a pod, gam, school or herd of whales?<br /><br />Also, which cards did ya'll win?<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Bruce- I think it's time to find a new topic. We get the point- you are a big fan of ultra-high grade rare cards. There must be some other area of the hobby you could share with us. Thanks.

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Barry -- slight correction, they are a fan of watching others buy ultra-rare-hot-dog-maxed-out-wonderful-crazy-terrific-funtime-high-grade cards.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Brian- I am aware of all of this.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>bill had a nice selection of cards. i was outbid on the only lot i was bidding on.<br /><br />bruce- did you win anything?<br /><br />p.s. the flynn tip top is in an SGC holder, not PSA.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I will say I was really surprised at the prices the Tip Tops went for. For the entire group it was over $121k before bp, which doing the math in my head would have been over $142k if the buyer's premium was 17.5% (i'm not sure that was the bp %). Really strong prices especially for some of the lower grade cards...I'm wondering if one person ended up with the bulk of the Tip Tops alone.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>Will somebody please name these whales, what they collect, and any other information that may be of interest to the collecting community?<br /><br />Otherwise, I have to admit this subject is getting very boring very fast.<br /><br />It is becoming as worthwhile to discuss as crop circles and the number of pregnancies we all think Britney Spears and her sister are capable of conceiving.<br /><br />Thanks

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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>Fudgy the Whale, Moby Dick and my mother-in-law.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>As old as the "ultra high grade fierce competition" schtick is getting the same is holding true for the best cards.....As someone who tracks other cards that aren't the best I can safely tell you the market has softened a bit and continues to be flat. Common e cards in 40 holders were about $150 last year...now they are going for about $95-$120.....I think the same is true for T cards though I don't track them quite as much.... .btw, for those that do complain about Bruce it would be nice if you started a good thread once in a while...Good threads tend to (not always) over take bad ones and stay at the top longer.... Not ultra high grade but in a grade that I consider one of the absolute best to collect, SGC 80, is this one....the best card from the set and an upgrade of player for me.....and my only win. Bill had another great auction....<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1204899336.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>"Fudgy the Whale, Moby Dick and my mother-in-law."<br /><br />That might be the funniest thing I'll read all weekend.<br /><br />To Leon's point I agree, and I don't think it's only the lower-grade stuff that's flat. I took a bath on eBay last night with some low-grade material, but also on some higher-grade, oddball stuff.<br /><br />I think like any other issue, whether it's Plow Boy cards or 1980 Topps, realized prices are going to be directly attributed to who is building the set at any given time. <br /><br />The first time I noticed this was with 1938 Goudey. I had a few cards where I upgraded 7s to 8s, and I put the 7s out there on eBay and took a loss on them. At first I couldn't figure out why the bidding wasn't as spirited as it was when I bought the cards, and then I realized - duh - that since I wasn't driving up the prices with my own bids, the market was thinner and thus the pricing was lower. At the same time, a few weeks ago I sold some 8s for very high prices because some new players had begun working on the set - whether they're "whales" or not, I don't know - I'm an ad guy, not a marine biologist.<br /><br />-Al

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Sometimes we see events as we want to see them, not as they are.<br /><br />Lot #155, a T3 Turkey Red of Mickey Doolan, vg-ex, SGC 4 sold for $517 + commission. Lot #157 was a T3 of Harry Coveleski, SGC 3, vg, and it sold for $427 + juice. <br /><br />The Standard Catalog shows $360 for vg. <br /><br />Both sales seem in excess of catalog value. We can find more examples. And we can easily see that many cards went for more than catalog, not merely the pristine cards that some of us covet more than others.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>don loucous<br />don spence<br />scott ireland<br /><br />honorable mention:<br /><br />michael wachs<br /><br />BUT, i doubt that any of them bought the tip tops...they tend to collect more mainstream sets, T206, T205, Goudey, A&G, etc...But, they collect the finest available out there.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You seem to have formed a "group" by using the word "we" so often in your last post. Are we going to see "whilst" in your posts and "Sir" before your name in the future? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Zinn</b><p>Might our own Stumpy Yomass likewise deserve Honorable Mention if not top flight whaledom.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Michael,<br /><br />you never know. i've been watching Louchios buy some not so main stream type cards. I guess once you have that collection and have all the t206's, t205's, and 1933 goudey's that you possibly can have you might as well branch out.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>dave- very good point, i guess you never know...<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>The "three whales" listed by Michael make up the penultimate cadre.

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Posted By: <b>Zinn</b><p>If those three are merely the penultimate who IS the ultimate? <br /><br />RM?<br />KO?<br />DD?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Will those "whales" attend the Net54 dinner ?

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>here are some of the things Louchios has won the past few weeks-<br /><br />zeenuts, e93's, e97's, n300's, worch cigars, etc...etc.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>This is very helpful. Helps place everything in a context, and provides some clarity that the Bruces are writing of actual people.

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Please don't confuse me with the folks above. I am just not a condition-rarity guy. I hardly ever pay up for an upgrade beyond Ex. They're baseball cards, not diamonds.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>That's thinner than piss on a rock if you ask me. Better hope none of them ever gets bored or dies. <br /><br /><br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Adam- they will all get bored and they will all die. It's just a matter of timing.

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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to live forever. Or die trying.<br /><br />-Al

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>FWIW- i was not suggesting that these 3 men control the market by any means...i was merely answering someone's question, asking who these guys were that Bruce was refering to.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>I'm just glad that I have such limited funds...this way, the hobby will never ever get boring.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Al's post was dead-on correct.

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>What about that guy in California, who supposely spends $5 million per year on vintage cards ?

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>is out as whale?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"ultra-rare-hot-dog-maxed-out-wonderful-crazy-terrific-funtime-high-grade cards." LMAO I want that on all my cards that grade high when I sell, funny stuff!<br /><br />Fudgy the Whale...here's one that you almost have to crack because it's so delicious! Mike S has a PSA 8 OC Cookie Puss that's pretty neat!<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/39489a%20copy.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>This Wonka kid has seriously impressive skills.

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Posted By: <b>Zinn</b><p>Those edges look frosty to me. Beware!! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>That Wonka is scary!<br /><br />How did you get all that delicious creamy cake into that thin little slab?

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>I'm sure someone is going to ask what that CERT number from the whale goes to... here it is...<br /><br />ITEM INFORMATION<br />Year: 1909 - 191 <br />Brand: T206 UNKNOWN <br />Player: PERRY LIPE <br />Variety: N/A<br />Grade: 9

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>You are correct Eric, the whale ate the Perry Lipe card! As we all know and have been told whales live on high grade cards and the demand is higher than ever!

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>Wonka, that is awesome.<br /><br />I've been waiting for Carvel to come out with their collectables series for some time now. I understand they are extremely condition sensitive, as owners usually can't resist nibbling before submitting them for grading.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Jason,<br /><br />Clearly, not a Bread Card. Fudgie is a Cake Card.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>my mistake on that one!<br />I really haven't strayed far from tobacco cards yet in the vintage world, so thanks for pointing out that distinction.<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Seriously, those of us (plural) who have practical, real life constraints on our income, we (plural) cannot collect mint and near mint pre-WW I baseball cards with much success. So we end up buying less than perfect, worn cards. Cards that we might not mind touching.<br /><br />I (singular) think that the 'whales' that are referenced above, and other 'near whales' have pushed on the prices of pristine cards to such an extent, that with lesser cards being all that we can collect, our (pluaral) own buying pressure has pushed up the costs of those worn cards, too.<br /><br />That is what I (singular) think. And if some of you guys think so too, then we (plural, Leon) think it!

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Posted By: <b>Scott M.</b><p>John,<br /><br />That Fudgie looks pretty good. Do you know if PSA or SGC offer oversized holders for sheet cakes as well? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>"The market was fairly robust until recently across all grades of vintage, I think," said the plankton.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I (singular) think that the 'whales' that are referenced above, and other 'near whales' have pushed on the prices of pristine cards to such an extent, that with lesser cards being all that we can collect, our (pluaral) own buying pressure has pushed up the costs of those worn cards, too.&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Frank, you are dead on with this comment. The soaring prices for the highest graded of cards (especially caramels and pre-war regionals) has sent the 60s, 50s, 40s and even 30s way up. <br /><br />I also agree with leon, it is slowly becoming a buyer's market on many cards which seemed to peak last fall, but things are still sporadic. For example, I've been able to pick up some pretty nice 1912 Zeenuts lately for 1/2 to 1/3 what they were going for in the fall. Perhaps the "big boys" don't care about 50s, 40s, 30s and 20s, but when the cards' scarcity is factored in along with the fact that some of these cards are the highest graded out there, it's nice to have a respite from the dizzying prices these were getting not that long ago. E94s continue to hold their prices but I have noticed the E98s and E97s have begun to slip a little and E93s, E95s and E96s have tumbled.

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>When are the 3 (little) whales going to collect the truly rare stuff?,<br />ie. type collecting unique items. Like many of Leon's cards.<br /><br />Not Condition Rarities of common everyday sets like Tip Top, N172, E97, T206 Wagner, etc.<br /><br />Do the 3 little whales have...<br /><br />1925 FC-Unc. Holland Ice Cream Peckinpagh?<br />1923 V117 Maple Crispette Stengel?<br />1922 T231 Fan Cigarettes Baker?<br />1932 R328 US Caramel Lindstrom?<br />1933 R319 Durocher #106?<br />1911 M116 McConnell Chicago?<br />1922 Herpolsheimer Ruth, Cobb, Speaker, Hornsby, etc.?<br />1906 Ullman Mathewson?<br />1910 Punch Cigars Cobb, Plank, etc.<br />1921 Big Show Candy Ruth, Cobb<br /><br />Or any card from D303 Mothers, T208, T215 Pirate, Texas Tommy, T216 Virginia Extra, E222, Stevens Firearms, J=K Candy, etc. etc.?

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>We got outbid on everything and found for the most part, the items we were interested in to be slightly less than expected. We didn't have much motivation. <br /><br />We also find Wonka to be a freaking comic genius...Carrot Top with a scanner.<br /><br />We also want to know if that was a fair price of for the Johnson Garter, knowing zip and pip about these issues. <br /><br />We thank you in advance for your response.<br /><br />DJ<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I thought the BG Johnson went low -- but again, the market is so thin for cards like this, who knows what these cards are worth?<br /><br />FKW, I've got at least one of those cards as well as another 1 of 1. I would like to be considered a whale, please.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>with regards to Carrot Top's being a "comic genius."<br />You are spot-on, however, regarding Mr. Wonka<br /><br />Jeff L,<br />So let it be known. You are heretofore now known throughout these lands as "Whale #4" Congratulations, and so on and so forth.<br />

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Posted By: <b>S Gross</b><p>Fun, Fun <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1204922966.JPG"> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />((((and you got me all misty thinking about the old Tom Carvel ads. Nothing like an old crusty guy who sounded like he just took a shot of battery acid, to get you to buy ice cream)))))

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Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p>Am I misreading the auction results? The Tip Top Mascot sold for more than the Dreyfuss and the mascot ain't in the HOF! And it was an SGC 20! $10,000+! Of course it was his rookie card . . . We wonder what a PSA 8 would fetch.