T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Morning Folks,<br /><br /> Is there any chance somebody can post a scan of Joe Kelley's T215 Red Cross card? I suspect the pose is the same as his T206, T213 and T214 poses, but wonder if the card lists the team as Toronto or New York.<br /><br />Any chance somebody knows?<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Richard.

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Here you go:<br /><br /><img src="http://members.aol.com/wolfie51sb/kelleycross.jpg"><img src="http://members.aol.com/wolfie51sb/kelleycrossrev.jpg">

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Wow Rob, that was quick!<br /><br />Secretly I was hoping the card listed him with a team other than Toronto so that I didn't <i>have</i> to add it to my wantlist (shifting focus to include pre-war Toronto cards) -- I don't imagine that card comes around too often.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Richard.<br /><br />

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>I know he is listed with New York in some sets. Does anyone know what role he played with New York? I have a Sporting News book that attempted to list every Hall of Famer's relationship with each team, including managing, coaching, and in some cases even scouting. But it has no reference to Kelley with New York.

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>I believe John Brush owned the New York Giants and The Cincinnati Reds at the same time, when he hired Kelley as playing manager of the Reds. That's the only connection to New York, however tenuous, that I'm aware of. That is, aside from the New York AL designations on some cards.

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Richard,<br /><br />I'm new to vintage baseball (I collect pre war hockey, sorry, haha) but I check this board daily and your question really made me curious, a Toronto team? What league would this have been in? (I'm so interested because I live only 45min. away from Toronto and I thought we only had the Blue Jays as a big league team.)<br /><br />Good question!!<br /><br />Thanks to whoever posted the scan.<br /><br />Andrew

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Patrick McMenemy</b><p>Welcome Andrew,<br /><br />In 1912, Imperial Tobacco issued a set of minor league cards for the International League. It was given the American Card Catalog # C46. Here is the lone example that I own of a catcher, Bradley Kocher,who played for Toronto.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1196030938.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1196030972.JPG"> <br /><br />Patrick

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Hey Andrew,<br /><br /> Technically, I think the Blue Jays are Toronto's first <i>big league</i> club, but they're certainly not the first professional team out of TO. <br /><br />Toronto has had professional teams since at least the 1890s that have played under different names and in different leagues. If you look back, I think you may find that the baseball team beat the hockey team to the name 'Maple Leafs' by a few years.<br /><br />More recently, the 'Toronto Maple Leafs' play in the Intercounty League and play their home games at Christie Pitts.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm still reading and learning about this stuff myself, so rather than rehash this like I'm some kind of expert, I'll refer you to a handful of links that I've found in the last little while.<br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Maple_Leafs_%28minor_league_baseball%29" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Maple_Leafs_%28minor_league_baseball%29</a><br /><a href="http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/history/top100.jsp" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/history/top100.jsp</a><br /><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Toronto_Maple_Leafs" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Toronto_Maple_Leafs</a><br /><br />Anyone else out there have any good links for pre-war minor league baseball? <br />Anyone know of any books that get into roster/statistical details of the Eastern League and/or International League?<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Richard.

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Great card Patrick.<br /><br />Other pre-war issues that I've found contain Toronto players:<br /><br />T206 (5 players)<br />T213-2 (2 players)<br />T201 (single card; 2 players)<br />E254/E270 (around 10-12, still checklisting)<br />T215 (single card)<br />M116 (single card)<br />1933 Goudey (single card)<br /><br /><br />Anyone know of any others?<br /><br />Richard.

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Richard,<br /><br />Thanks so much, those links will keep me busy tonight!!

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Richard, just off the top of my head I can think of a few you are missing...<br /><br />1887-90 N172 Old Judge<br />1898 Cameo Pepsin Pins (team pin)<br />1912 C46 Imperial Tobacco<br />1936 World Wide Gum<br />1937 R314 Creamy Canadian Players (Designated as type D or Set 5 depending on who you listen to)<br /><br />-Rhett<br />

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Just thought of another one...<br /><br />1939 V351 World Wide Gum<br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/meolawwg.JPG"><br />-Rhett<br />

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>Here is an example of the very rare 1936 R314D/R314 type 5/V352 cards (includes many International League Toronto and Montreal players).<br /><br /><img src=http://centuryoldcards.com/images/r314d.jpg>

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Oh gees...I have those N172s in my checklist and forgot to include them. I didn't know about the 1936 WWG or the 1937 R314s though. Thanks!<br /><br />Frank -- can you tell me more about the V351 issue? I've never even heard of it, let alone that it includes some Toronto players.<br /><br />Turns out another set that I forgot is the 1950 V362 WWG set.<br /><br />Guess I have a bit more checklist work to do.<br /><br />Thanks guys!<br /><br />Richard.

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>Rhett's card above mine is the V351. The Scarcella is listed in the ACC as V352 but most collectors call it a R314D or R314 type 5.<br /><br />There are 39 different Canadian players in the set (Montreal or Toronto). Very tough cards, Im always looking for them and only see maybe 2-3 a year on eBay if that. <br /><br />Almost all of the info I have learned about these cards (and other R313/R314 style cards) is from a 7 page feature in the Old Cardboard magazine issue #7 (Spring 2006) by Tim Newcomb.

T215 Red Cross Joe Kelley
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Thanks for the extra info, Frank. <br /><br />And thanks for yet another reason to go to OC and buy a run of their magazines. One of these days I'll do it.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Richard.