T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>For those of you who would like to complete a run of an all-SOVEREIGN T206 set....<br />My finding is that the following list of cards do not appear to be available with any<br /> Sovereign back (besides the Big Six, Lundgren (Cubs) and the 48-So. Lgers).<br /><br />How about it....you dedicated T206 guys....check-out your collections and tell us if<br /> you can verify any of these cards with a SOVEREIGN back ?<br /><br /><br />150-only Series......<br />Donlin (fldg)<br /><br />350 Series......<br />Abstein<br />Adkins<br />Arellanes<br />Barbeau<br />Barger<br />Becker<br />Bliss<br />Brashear<br />Bresnahan (bat)<br />Burchell<br />Charles<br />Clark<br />Clymer<br />Cross<br />Davidson<br />Frank Delehanty<br />Demmitt (NY)<br />Dessau<br />Dorner<br />Elberfeld (port-Wash)<br />Engle<br />Evans<br />Fletcher<br />Freeman<br />Ganzel<br />Graham (St Louis)<br />Gray<br />Groom<br />Hayden<br />Hoffman (St Louis)<br />Hunter<br />Davy Jones<br />La Porte<br />Lattimore<br />Lord<br />Lundgren (KC)<br />Maddox<br />Maloney<br />Marshall<br />Mattern<br />McAleese<br />McBride<br />McElveen<br />McLean<br />Milan<br />Dots Miller<br />Mullen (port)<br />Murray (bat)<br />Myers (bat)<br />Nattress<br />Phillippe<br />Puttman<br />Rhodes<br />Ritter<br />Rudolph<br />Schirm<br />Schlafly<br />Schreck<br />Shannon<br />Sharpe<br />Snodgrass (bat)<br />Starr<br />Willett<br /><br />350/460 Series......<br />Leach (cap)<br />Magee (bat)<br />Rucker (throw)<br />Wagner (no B)<br /><br /><br />460-only Series......<br />Kleinow (Boston)<br />F Smith (Chi & Boston)<br /><br />If I did my homework well....I don't think there will be many responses to this SURVEY,<br />confirming Sovereign backs on these cards. Also, note that 26 of the 70 cards in this<br /> list are the Minor Leaguers.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />I went over your list of Sovereign backs, and none of them have shown up on the Super Set. I am sure we will find more cards that aren't possible with Sovereign backs. BB

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Great work. You have "thrown down the gauntlet" and we'll see if any you have listed can be found. I for one will be on the lookout.<br /><br />If I understand what you are saying, there are 52 subjects possible with the Sovereign 460 back. Elsewhere we have seen 48 subjects possible with a back, for example, Old Mill Southern. Any theories on this? <br /><br />Scot

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Judson Hamlin</b><p>Having done my own research over the last 12 years or so, I have seen (but do not own) the following:<br /><br />Sov.150<br />Doolin<br />Spencer<br /><br />Sov.350<br />Doolan (field)<br />D. White (throw)<br />Willis (throw)<br /><br /><br />These were cards that I saw and recorded at shows, on ebay and/or at stores, where I could verify the combos first hand.<br /><br />O'fer on the rest, though<br /><br />Judson<br /><br />edited for idiotic grammar

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT R<br /><br />You and I have discussed the coincidence of 48 Subjects in the Southern League Series<br />and the 48 Subjects in the 460-only Series. But, I've tried to work this factor into the<br /> other Series and it doesn't fit.<br /><br />And, then of course, in the So. Lge. example when you consider the HINDU brand, the<br /> "48 Subject" theory falls apart. As it also does, when you consider the 460-only Series<br /> with respect to the Sovereign brand.<br /><br />Perhaps, 99 years ago there was a diabolical streak in the T206 designers, in that they<br /> deliberately designed a series of BB cards so convoluted, that it would confound any col-<br />lector who dared to try to understand it....for centuries to come. It was not meant for<br /> us to fully understand "the Monster"....that is the real legacy of the T206 scenario.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>OK guys......where is your inputs on this important SURVEY ? ?<br /><br />I appreciate that it is quite lengthy.....but, don't let that turn you off.<br /><br />BRIAN W and ART M<br /><br />I'm sure you guys have lots of Sovereign cards......and I am expecting you to "chip"<br />away at some of the "NO PRINT" cards on my list. <br /><br />The research I have done; and, my present collection of 300+ different T206's with<br /> SOVEREIGN backs resulted in this list......and I am not claiming it is final......Indeed,<br /> I am hoping many Forum members can respond with their data.<br /><br />This will certainly help my current project of trying to complete a run of T206's with<br />just Sovereign cards.....At this point I figure that ATC printed approx. 400 - T206's<br /> with this Tobacco brand.<br /><br />THANKS much.......and wishing all a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p><br />If I did my homework well.....I don't think there will be many responses to this SURVEY,<br />confirming Sovereign backs on these cards. Also, note how a good number of them are<br />Minor Leaguers.<br /><br />Hi Ted<br />No Sovereign backs on any of these cards for me.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br><br>Drew

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> Sorry, but I've been out of town for 7 of the last 10 days, and I have 26 people coming to the house for Thanksgiving, so you'll have to wait till the weekend. <br /> I do have several idea's about the "missing" Sovereign's and will happily share them when I have time. Happy Thanksgiving too all Brian

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>DREW<br /><br />I guess I started a Survey that will have very few responses.......but, I guess that is good. As it<br /> will prove I did my homework well on this subject.<br /><br />A subject that I believe has not been previously addressed regarding T206's with Sovereign backs.<br />T-Rex TED

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> Check your email, I'm working on your project. Give me a few days and I might be able to shed light on the missing Sovereigns.<br /><br /> Until then, Happy Thanksgiving Brian

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Ted,<br />I believe that this survey will slowly produce finds similar to your recent "missing" Piedmont 350 thread. Some of the T206 Sovereign cards seem to be more plentiful than others. While your list of no-prints is a lengthy - I believe that over time several of these will be discovered and crossed off the list.<br /><br />Lets start with T206 Jimmy Collins - Here is the pop report from the SGC web site:<br /><br />T206 1909-11 Baseball JIMMY COLLINS El Principe De Gales 5<br />T206 1909-11 Baseball JIMMY COLLINS Polar Bear 8<br />T206 1909-11 Baseball JIMMY COLLINS Tolstoi Cigarettes 1<br />T206 1910 Baseball JIMMY COLLINS Piedmont Cigarettes 51<br />T206 1910 Baseball JIMMY COLLINS Sovereign Cigarettes 1<br />T206 1910 Baseball JIMMY COLLINS Sweet Caporal Cigarettes 16<br /><br />Although the Sovereign back Jimmy Collins has a low pop (1 graded) it does exist. So now we can cross off Jimmy Collins provided the grading company was accurate with their identification.<br /><br />Looking forward to any more Sovereign discoveries.<br />Art M.

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I spoke with Larry Frisch today for a few minutes. He seemed very interested in checking our cozy little board out. I sent him a link and he responded that he did get it. I am sure he has a great wealth of information and could help out on threads such as this...Also, he is somewhat of an esoteric type collector with unordinary stuff. The difference between he and I is probably that he has multiple sets of the cards and I have 1-2 samples of each.......take care

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>ART M<br /><br />In Barry Sloate's recent find of 310 Sovereign cards, there were actually another<br />80 - T206's with a variety of backs. And, I found it quite interesting that most of<br /> the above listed cards were in this latter group. Which raises the question......it<br /> appears that the original owner (back in 1909-11) was trying to collect every card <br />in the set....and indeed, he also had a Plank....so, were these additional 80 cards<br /> not available to him with Sovereign backs ?<br /><br />I appreciate that this is just one find, and one can call it anectdotal....but, it does<br /> appear to reflect what my extensive research has shown. So, I cannot dismiss this.<br />Besides my Sovereign collection and Barry's find (which I personally cataloged); my<br /> two main sources for generating this list are Scot Reader's 20,000 card analysis and<br /> Bill Brown's Super Set spread sheet.<br /><br />Art....I will delete Jimmy Collins from the list. He is the 1st to go and I thank for this<br />input. This is exactly why I started this Survey. However, I am dissapointed in the<br /> lack of response....so far.<br /><br />Art....have a very Happy Thanksgiving.<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Ted,<br />Here is another SGC graded example that you can cross off your missing Sovereign list - Warhop (SGC shows TWO Sovereign graded).<br /><br />T206 1909-11 Baseball JACK WARHOP Polar Bear 3 <br />T206 1910 Baseball JACK WARHOP Cycle Cigarettes 1 <br />T206 1910 Baseball JACK WARHOP Piedmont Cigarettes 34 <br />T206 1910 Baseball JACK WARHOP Sovereign Cigarettes 2 <br />T206 1910 Baseball JACK WARHOP Sweet Caporal Cigarettes 11<br /><br />Art M.<br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>ART M<br /><br />Check the list....I beat you to to the "punch". I reviewed all my Sovereign T206's<br />and found a Warhop. I must of overlooked him, so that prompted me to go thru all<br />my cards again to see if I overlooked any other. The list should be correct now.<br />And, it is waiting for you to "punch some holes" in it.<br /><br />Art....I would be willing to bet you (a T206 card)....that when the dust settles on<br /> this survey, we will realize that there were only approx. 400 (total) T206's that were<br />printed with the SOVEREIGN Tobacco brand.<br /><br />I'd be interested in your opinion of this theory ?<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>Ted,i have a Conroy with bat sovereign back.Thats the only one from your list i have out of about 20 sovereign backs

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JOHN D<br /><br />Thanks for you input on Conroy. Responses like yours and Art M's are exactly why I<br /> generated this list. I will update my list with your input.<br /> <br />John.....am I going to see you and your Dad at Reading next weekend ?<br /><br />OK guys, we need more inputs on this subject....Gee, this is like "pulling hen's teeth"<br />to get you guys to contribute. And, let me remind you serious T206 guys......even if<br />you do not have any of these cards on my list. This too, is an important bit of data.<br /><br />Especially you T206 collectors with near complete sets....or large numbers of T206's.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Ted i was be there, sans father,either saturday(90% chance) or sunday.Hopefully saturday since i would like to meet Tbob. <br /><br /><br /> Someone needs to take a picture of Tbob and T-Rex holding some t206s,or a TTT t204 back <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The list of SOVEREIGN "No-Prints" has been revised, reflecting member's inputs.<br /><br />The cards deleted are Conroy (bat), Doolan (fldg), Doc White and Willis (throw).<br /><br />There are 71 cards that are still unaccounted for with Sovereign backs....so, let's<br />have some more inputs on this Survey....how about it guys ?<br /><br />T-Rex TED

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>An emailed input results in Downey (fldg) scratched from the list.<br /><br />Let's see some more inputs....you T206 collectors ? ?<br /><br />T-Rex TED

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Trex,<br />no sovereigns here---<br />i have all the cards listed except for Dessau,Elberfeld W.port.,<br />Maloney,Mattern,McLean,Puttman,Snodgrass (bat),Magee (bat),Kleinow(Bost.),<br />Frank Smith(Ch.@Bos.)<br /><br />great research!<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />barry

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT<br /><br />An emerging pattern is becoming evident, the more I study this Sovereign set,<br />that I am trying to put together. I will talk to you about my theory regarding<br /> this sometime forthcoming week.<br /><br />I will be interested in what your opinions are.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br />I am around to field emails this week and will look forward to hearing your Sovereign theory.<br />Scot<br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>A slow process, but another No-Print has been scratched from the list....Magee (batting).<br /><br />The current updated list comprises 69 cards. If this number holds, then a complete run of<br /> Sovereign T206's would be exactly 400 cards. My calculation is as follows......<br /><br />524 - "Big 6" - Lundgren (Cubs) - 48 So. Lgrs = 469......then minus these 69 cards = 400<br /><br /> <br />150-only Series......<br />Donlin (hands on knees)<br /><br />350 Series......<br />Abstein<br />Adkins<br />Arellanes<br />Barbeau<br />Barger<br />Becker<br />Bliss<br />Brashear<br />Bresnahan (bat)<br />Burchell<br />Charles<br />Clark<br />Clymer<br />Cross<br />Davidson<br />Frank Delehanty<br />Demmitt (NY)<br />Dessau<br />Dorner<br />Elberfeld (port-Wash)<br />Engle<br />Evans<br />Fletcher<br />Freeman<br />Ganzel<br />Graham (St Louis)<br />Gray<br />Groom<br />Hayden<br />Hoffman (St Louis)<br />Hunter<br />Davy Jones<br />La Porte<br />Lattimore<br />Lord<br />Lundgren (KC)<br />Maddox<br />Maloney<br />Marshall<br />Mattern<br />McAleese<br />McBride<br />McElveen<br />McLean<br />Milan<br />Dots Miller<br />Mullen (port)<br />Murray (bat)<br />Myers (bat)<br />Nattress<br />Phillippe<br />Puttman<br />Rhodes<br />Ritter<br />Rudolph<br />Schirm<br />Schlafly<br />Schreck<br />Shannon<br />Sharpe<br />Snodgrass (bat)<br />Starr<br />Willett<br /><br />350/460 Series......<br />Leach (cap)<br />Rucker (throw)<br />Wagner (no B)<br /><br />460-only Series......<br />Kleinow (Boston)<br />F Smith (Chi & Boston)<br /><br />Anyhow, I do not think that this is the final list; therefore, any more inputs to this Survey<br /> would be greatly appreciated from you T206 guys ?<br /><br />I realize it is a long list and it can be tedious to check-out your T206 collections; however,<br /> this is really meaningful stuff......stuff that Vintage BB card "Dreams" are made of.<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT READER<br /><br />I promised you some new T206 info, as a result of my putting together a all-Sovereign set.<br />I am going to hold off for now, as I am anticipating 120 more T206's that I have acquired.<br />Which may either reinforce or detract from the observation I was going to relate to you.<br /><br />I will get back to you after the Philly Show this forthcoming weekend.<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I'm now batting .667, guy......only two cards (Cobb and Evers) left in the hunt.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/chancematty.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/achasechase.jpg">

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />I will keep an eye out for the Cobb and Evers. A Cobb with Sov 460 seems to show up on eBay once or twice a year. Have not seen many Evers Sov 460s but they are out there for sure.<br />Scot

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Ted, This falls under my theory about teams missing, do you have any St. Louis players with Sov. backs, especially 350 series there sure seems alot on your list.<br /><br />Lee

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>St Louis Amer.....11 cards in Sov 150 series, 6 cards in the Sov 350 series,<br /> and 2 in Sov 460 series.<br /><br />St Louis Nat'l......4 in Sov 150 series, 4 in Sov 350 series, and 1 in Sov 460<br /> series.<br /><br />This data is from approx. 300 different Sovereign cards in my set, so far.<br /><br />If you are interested, I will list the players the next time I post here.<br /><br />TED Z <br /> <br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Lee,<br /> You can add:<br /><br />Minor Leaguers from the following cities:<br />1. Baltimore<br />2. Rochester<br />3. Indy<br />4. Columbus<br />5. KC<br />6.Buffalo<br /><br /> And Major Leaguers from:<br /><br />1. NY<br />2. BOS<br />3. WASH<br />4. PITT<br />5. DET<br /><br />Some of the players from each city appear with Sovereign 350 backs, but most of the "missing" seem to be found with Piedmont backs, and almost all have been seen with American Beauty, Carolina Brights, Broadleaf, and Tolstoi backs. <br /> I believe we may find a few more cards on Ted's list, but doubt we will make a huge dent. Personally, I don't think this group of cards was ever distributed with Sovereign backs in these cities. <br /><br /> I'm still looking Brian

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for the great info Brian.....and I might add CYCLE 350 to your list. I have quite<br />a few Cycle backs of the cards on my "No-Print" list.<br /><br />SCOT READER<br /><br />Brian, more or less, just related what I was going to tell you. I will augment Brian's<br /> finding with my following observations....<br /><br />1st I would like to show you my final wantlist, prior to my completing the Piedmont set:<br /><br />Adkins....Barger....Bliss....Brashear....Charles. ...Cross....Davidson<br /><br />Fletcher....Gray....Hunter....Maddox....Mattern.. .Miller....McAleese<br /><br />Sharpe....Starr....Wagner (bat/right shouder<br /><br />Compare it with the above Sovereign list and you will find an unusual coincidence. My<br />point is that there is a certain pattern of players in the set that must have been printed in<br />lesser quantities than previously expected....."lesser-prints" (LP). We have of course dis-<br />cussed the well recognized tougher cards in the set; but, I found these to be quite surprising<br /> as I certainly did not think them to be tough.<br /><br />There is more to this than meets the eye, but I have to go now.<br /><br />TED Z <br /><br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />If, as appears evident, certain subjects are not possible with Sovereign then I guess they would by definition have been "short printed" relative to their counterparts that are possible with Sovereign. For example, in my survey 5.7% of 350-only subjects had the Sovereign back. It stands to reason then that if a 350-only subject is not possible with Sovereign then that subject was "short printed" by some 6% relative to 350-only subjects that are possible with Sovereign just by virtue of its unavailability with the Sovereign back.<br /><br />But I understand you to be saying something more, which is that subjects that are not possible with Sovereign may also be less plentiful with other backs, for example, Piedmont. I would say that in some cases this may be true, but I would be hesitant to draw a bright line. For example, I have found Maddox and Miller (Pittsburg) to be particularly plentiful with Piedmont. Indeed, I believe these subjects were long-printed with Piedmont due to the Pirates' victory in the 1909 World Series. My survey data and the PSA population report bear out that these subjects (as well as Abstein and Phillippe) are ubiquitous.<br /><br />Scot

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zamidakis</b><p>LEE B and SCOT R<br /><br />Lee....you singled out the St Louis teams' players, so I am curious if this was due<br />to the fact that both these teams were in the "cellar" of their Leagues during the<br />years (1907-11) that the T206 cards were being planned and produced ?<br /><br />Which would probably imply less player representation in the T206 set. While I don't<br />know how true this is across all the Tobacco brands, it appears to be so for the St<br /> Louis (NAT'L) with respect to the Sovereign brand. And, I draw this conclusion from<br />my 300 Sov. cards in my collection and the ones I still need from my wantlist.<br /><br />SCOT<br /><br />This observation may possibly give us some insight into a question you once asked me.....<br />why Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis) are "short-printed" and only exist with the Polar Bear<br /> brand. To the latter fact....my "way-out" theory is that when both these subjects were<br />traded, it was during a printing run of T206's with the Polar Bear Chewing Tobacco brand.<br /><br /> Both players did not remain with their respective St Louis teams thru the season and were<br /> reassigned to the Minors. Demmitt was with Montreal for the 1911 season.<br /> I forget where O'Hara ended up (possibly Toronto)....but, both these guys are portrayed<br /> in the Imperial Tob. issue (C46) of 1912. <br /><br />I would be interested in your opinions, guys ?

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />I think you are on to something. The Polar Bear-only printing of Demmitt (St. Louis) and O'Hara (St. Louis) may have had something to do with their short stint with St. Louis clubs in 1910. Demmitt only played 10 games for the Browns in 1910 while O'Hara played a mere nine for the Cards that season. Moreover, O'Hara's last major league game was on May 8, 1910--he didn't even make it to the Summer. The same is probably true for Demmitt (although he resurfaced in the majors in 1914).<br /><br />Taking the analysis a step further, it is known that the New York versions of Demmitt and O'Hara do not appear with Polar Bear (even though most other 350-only subjects can be found with that back), whereas the St. Louis versions appear ONLY with Polar Bear. This suggests to me that the St. Louis versions were not intended as subjects for a new series but rather were a midstream correction to the New York versions made during the 350-only series print run. Perhaps, then, there was a set brand sequence to the 350-only series print run, for example, Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Sovereign, EPDG, Old Mill, Broad Leaf, Carolina Brights, Cycle, Drum, Polar Bear, Tolstoi, with the New York to St. Louis substitution occurring after Drum and pull-out of the St. Louis versions happening before Tolstoi (note that the New York versions don't seem to be available with Tolstoi, either). Of course, the above brand sequence is merely exemplary; I am not suggesting that's exactly how the sequence went.<br /><br />Scot

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>At the Philly Show in Reading, PA this weekend I acquired about 20 more Sovereign<br /> cards for my set, including 2 that were on the "No-Print" list....<br /><br />Rucker (throwing)<br /><br />Wagner (No B)<br /><br />So, the updated list now totals 67 possible No-Print cards.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br />Leach (Bending) is available on eBay right now with Sov 350. Scratch him.<br />Scot<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Tommy-Leach-Bending-Over-SGC-60-Sovereign-350-Back_W0QQitemZ300055655104QQihZ020QQcategoryZ57993 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Tommy-Leach-Bending-Over-SGC-60-Sovereign-350-Back_W0QQitemZ300055655104QQihZ020QQcategoryZ57993 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a>

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT R<br /><br />Thanks for this input.....as, I had a feeling that one by one we would find all the missing<br /> cards in the 350/460 series.<br /><br />At Philly this w/e, I must of went thru 800 - T206's as I covered all dealers who had any.<br /> However, there were very few Sovereign's to be found; until, I reached veteran hobbyist<br /> Irv Lerner's booth. Irv's T206 inventory is organized as a function of backs. He had over<br /> 100 Sovereign's to select from and I found 8 cards for my set. And, a dozen more from all<br /> the other dealers at the Show.<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>UPDATED Survey<br /><br />Three more No-Prints have been scratched from the list.....Leach, Rucker and Wagner (no B).<br />All from the 350/460 series.<br /><br />That leaves Donlin (fldg) from the 150 series.....63 subjects from the 350 series.....Smith and <br />Kleinow from the 460-only series.<br /><br />150-only Series.......<br />Donlin (fldg)<br /><br />350 Series.......<br />Abstein<br />Adkins<br />Arellanes<br />Barbeau<br />Barger<br />Becker<br />Bliss<br />Brashear<br />Bresnahan (bat)<br />Burchell<br />Charles<br />Clark<br />Clymer<br />Cross<br />Davidson<br />Frank Delehanty<br />Demmitt (NY)<br />Dessau<br />Dorner<br />Elberfeld (port-Wash)<br />Engle<br />Evans<br />Fletcher<br />Freeman<br />Ganzel<br />Graham (St Louis)<br />Gray<br />Groom<br />Hayden<br />Hoffman (St Louis)<br />Hunter<br />Davy Jones<br />La Porte<br />Lattimore<br />Lord<br />Lundgren (KC)<br />Maddox<br />Maloney<br />Marshall<br />Mattern<br />McAleese<br />McBride<br />McElveen<br />McLean<br />Milan<br />Dots Miller<br />Mullen (port)<br />Murray (bat)<br />Myers (bat)<br />Nattress<br />Phillippe<br />Puttman<br />Rhodes<br />Ritter<br />Rudolph<br />Schirm<br />Schlafly<br />Schreck<br />Shannon<br />Sharpe<br />Snodgrass (bat)<br />Starr<br />Willett<br /><br />460-only Series.......<br />Kleinow (Boston)<br />F Smith (Chi & Boston)<br /><br /><br />Perhaps there are no more Sovereigns on this list to be discovered; or, there is just no more<br /> interest in this Survey. In either event, this list will have to be considered final for the time<br /> being.....if so, then a complete set of T206's with the Sovereign brand = 403 cards.<br /><br /><br />T-Rex TED <br /> <br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />Thanks for this research effort. You are truly the T206 "Sovereign". I have believed for a while now that Donlin (Fielding) is slightly more difficult than the other 150-only subjects. Maybe that difficulty is ENTIRELY attributable to Donlin (Fielding)'s unavailability with Sovereign 150. We could have a similar discussion with respect to the unavailability of Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Chicago and Boston) with Sovereign 460. How much of the difficulty of these subjects relative to other 460-only subjects is attributable to their unavailability with Sovereign 460? I suspect quite a bit, if not all. Can you post the Sovereigns you need to complete your set? I would love to try and help you locate the cards you need to complete it.<br />Scot

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT R<br /><br />I really appreciate your offer to help me find the remaining cards for this Sovereign set.<br /><br />1st.....here is a list of the 21 Stars I need......<br /><br />150/350 Series<br /><br />M. Brown..port<br />Chesbro<br />Cobb..bat on<br />Crawford..fldg<br />George Davis<br />Joss..port<br />Keeler..port<br />Lajoie..throw<br />Matty..wh cap<br />McGraw..red<br /><br />350 Series<br /><br />M. Brown..Chi<br />Cobb..bat off<br />Dahlen..Brooklyn<br />Huggins..hds/mouth<br />Jennings..yell<br />Joss..throw<br />Willis..throw<br />CYoung..glove<br /><br />460 Series<br /><br />Cobb..red<br />Evers..Chi<br />McGraw..cap<br /><br />I will provide a list of the remaining cards in the next post.<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>I will email you and see if you have the commons list that you need.<br /><br />Scott

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOTT B<br /><br />Thanks for the email response. This evening I'll be listing the additional 57 cards I need.<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT R and SCOTT B<br /><br />Here is the list of the 57 additional Sovereign cards needed for my set.....<br /><br />150/350 Series<br /><br />Ball..NY<br />Brown(e)..Chi<br />Chase..wh cap<br />Cicotte<br />Donovan..port<br />Doyle..throw<br />F. Jones<br />Jordan..port<br />O'Leary..port<br />Shaw<br />Sheckard..pink<br />F. Smith<br />Weimer<br />Williams<br /><br />350 Series<br /><br />Atz<br />Barry..A's<br />Byrne<br />Cassidy<br />Chappelle<br />Conroy..bat<br />Davis..A's<br />Donlin..bat<br />Dougherty..arms up<br />Downey..fldg<br />Joe Doyle<br />Dubuc<br />Egan<br />Fiene..cap<br />Grimshaw<br />Kleinow..NY<br />Krause..port<br />Kroh<br />Leach..cap<br />Moriarity<br />Mowery<br />Myer..fldg<br />O'Hara..NY<br />O'Neill<br />Perring<br />Pfeister..throw<br />Reulbach<br />Rhoades..hds/chest<br />Rossman<br />Schmidt..Det<br />Steinfeldt..bat<br />Unglaub<br />White..throw<br />Willetts<br />Wiltse<br /><br />460 Series<br /><br />Hummell<br />Needham<br /><br />Thanks in advance, guys.<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>Had 4 more commons, sent you an email<br /><br />Scott

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks to Art M..Scott B..Steve M..and emails from "readers"....I have acquired the following Sovereign T206's.....<br /><br />Bender..port<br />Bender..trees<br />Donohue<br />Johnson..hands/chest<br />Konetchy..low glove<br />McIntyre..port<br />McIntyre..Bro & Chi<br />McQuillan..bat<br />O'Brien<br />Tinker..bat off<br />CYoung..no glove<br /><br />T-Rex Ted<br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks....with a little help from my friends....I have picked up some more cards for this set;<br />including a tough to find Sovereign 350 of Cobb (bat off shoulder).<br /><br />I will be listing the ones I still need.....for anyone on the Forum that can help.<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>UPDATED List....Sovereign-only wanted<br /><br />Only 28 cards needed to be complete.......6-16-2007<br /><br /><br />Ball (NY)................Dubuc.....................McGr aw (glove)<br />Bescher (fldg)<br />Chesbro.................Huggins (hd/mo).......Needham<br />Jim Collins..............Joss (pitch)..............Pfeister (throw)<br />............................Keeler (port)<br />Conroy (bat)...........Kleinow (NY)............Steinfeldt (bat)<br />Crawford (fldg)........Krause (port)...........Stovall (bat)<br />Geo. Davis...........................................Sw eeney (Boston)<br />Donovan (port.........Lajoie (bat)..............Doc White(throw)<br />................................................. ........Willetts<br />............................Marquard (port)........CYoung (glove)<br />L. Doyle (throw)......Matty (white cap)<br />and a very rare.....<br />Red Cobb (Sov 460)<br /><br />Thanks in advance, guys.<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Dave Levin has a T206 Jordan (Portrait), McGraw (Portrait No Cap) and an O'Leary (Portrait) with Sovereign 150 and Chappelle, Fiene (Throwing), Kroh, Perring and Schmidt (Portrait) with Sovereign 350 for sale on his website:<br /><br />www.gfg.com<br /><br />Go to the T206 list.<br /><br />Hope this helps.<br /><br />Scot<br /><br />

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for the help. I picked-up a McGraw, but I will check out this website for the other cards.<br /><br />Wishing you, Anne-Marie, Nick and Amanda a very HAPPY NEW YEAR.<br /><br />TED Z

T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Thanks, Ted. All the best to you and yours as well.