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Posted By: <b>sean</b><p>does anyone know actually who was coaching for the giants on this famous game? Mcginnity for sure on third but i have heard both mathewson and wiltse coaching 1st?

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>I always thought it was Christy Mathewson who waived to Merkle and gave him the green light to stop running and get off the diamond. Hmmm...have you heard different.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>sean</b><p>In the sabr book deadball stars of the national league it says that Hooks Wiltse was on first. This is highly possible as I am pretty sure the giant dugout was on the first base side which means Matty coulda seen all this from that vantage point thus causing this confusion as to "whos on first"

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Posted By: <b>Dave S</b><p>I think there are so many various accounts of what really happened that no one has ever documented who was coaching 1st. Did Evers actually use a 2nd ball? Did McGinnity actually pick up the ball and throw it into the stands? Did the fan that caught McGinnity's throw actually get mugged by 2 Cubs, Harry Steinfeldt and Floyd Kroh? Was Matty being hoisted on the shoulders of Giant fans or dashing into the clubhouse to retrieve Merkle? SO MANY stories of the fabled "Boner"...so many variations as well...all most as many noted "truisms" as the Babe calling His shot..<br />A couple things often overlooked. 19 yr old rookie Merkle was actually making the 1st start of his career, for Fred Tenney who had a bum ankle (also the 1st game Tenney had missed that season!). Merkle went on to play 14 years...and in 5 World Series..and LOST all 5. Supposedly became somewhat of a recluse and retired "to go fishing" in Fla.<br />Another "neat" fact of that game...while all the commotion was taking place, the Cub clubhouse was ransacked...the team valuable bag (cash and jewelry) was lifted to the tune of about $6k...pretty big money in '08!!

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Many years ago I auctioned an early Giants postcard and I actually got a phone call from Merkle's great niece. She said he was haunted by that play his entire life. Sad, because plenty of other ballplayers have made similar gaffes and just taken it in stride. But everyone is different.

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Posted By: <b>Dave S</b><p>Don't know how many have read "WRIGLEYVILLE: A Magical History Tour of the Chicago Cubs" by Peter Golenbock, strongly recommend esp. for a Cub fan! A lot of player perspectives on "The Boner"...often conflicting ones, but interesting nonetheless..<br />Agree Barry, Merkle I'm sure took the play to the grave with him. Interesting though, that Mugsy McGraw never would blame him, never thought he made a "boner"...<br />And sadly, his stats and career proved him to be a damn good ballplayer...

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Posted By: <b>sean</b><p>I like the story about how fred merkle went to a church in the 1930's and there was a new pastor. The first thing the pastor said (having no idea fred merkle was in the audience) was: I have a confession to make, I am from so and so, the home of Fred "bonehead" merkle. 25 years after the fact and someone still couldnt forget that play! I love it!

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Hooks Wiltse was coaching first from all accounts I have ever heard. Matty was in the dugout and lied to protect his teammate by saying he saw Merkle touch second and he was absolutely positive of it. The Christian Gentleman was trying to help out and a teammate but the guy who wouldn't even grant interviews to reporters who he believed were cheating on their wives told a fib this time.<br />Blameless in this whole mess was John McGraw. He KNEW that this exact same play had occurred weeks before and Evers had pulled the same act and appealed it to the commissioner only to see it rejected and it was widely reported in the New York papers so Muggsy should have advised his players of it or at least told them about it...

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>What I like is the fact Matty was forthright and honest. While the rest of the Giants were making their excuses about the debacle, Matty recognized his role in the entire affair and was willing to awknowledge that Merkle never touched 2nd base and that he had waived him off the field.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Dave S</b><p>Bob and Peter..again, Matty's "honesty" depends as to whose story and which account you want to believe...<br />As Matty told then sports reporter Sam Crane of the New York Press: "Merkle was on second with Mathewson, and as Evers, Tinker, and Pfeister all rushed toward second, Matty, according to his own story, to which he will take an affidavit if such a ridiculous act is necessary, took Merkle by the arm and said 'Come on to the Clubhouse we don't want to mix up in this", and both Matty and Merkle left the base together"...<br />In Mugsy's defense...the play and rejected appeal had actually occurred 2 weeks prior in a Cub game with the Pirates. The following day when the article and "ruling" appeared in the New York globe, the Giants were playing Brooklyn at the Polo Grounds. Neither Mugsy or any of his players (he claimed) read or understood the rule..and<br />knew nothing about it...

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Posted By: <b>sean</b><p>Matty's afidavit saying that Merkle never touched second was all the national league ruling needed to decide this matter. They said thye trough out all the other accounts once they read matty's.

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Posted By: <b>Pcelli60</b><p>As was the practice at the Polo Grounds, a field with the clubhouses under the centerfield stands, Merkle headed off the base path to avoid the crowd, a large portion of which exited through the centerfield gates.<br />This practice was pretty much standard operating proceedure for the players.Umpires have always known this and never enforced the rule. Give credit to Evers he was pretty slick that day( no doubt remembering Pittsburg) and successfully pulled off his stunt. That is to say he managed to cause such a stir that the game was declaired a draw..<br />The Giants won that contest fair and square.

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Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>Bill Buckner was run out of Boston and now owns a Car Dealership 15 miles from my house in Emmett Idaho for one similar bad moment. Merkle and Buckner both were great players who should be remembered for other reasons, but at least they will always be remembered for something.<br /><br />It reminds me of when I was playing baseball in College and I went on a date the day after striking out with the bases loaded to lose a game. The girl I was with saw the paper and even though I was embarassed, she thought it was cool and said, "hey at least you got your name in the paper." I guess she was right to some extent.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Big difference between Buckner and Merkle, it was never acceptable to let a ground ball go between your legs, Buckner has absolutely no excuse. However, now that the Red Sox have broken the curse, Buckner's error has become an ordinary World Series blunder.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>Peter<br /><br />I actually believe the opposite. Since the day I was a little leaguer to the current day I have probably heard 10,000 managers say that physical mistakes happen but mental mistakes are not acceptable ever. Buckner made a physical error which happens, Merkle committed a mental error by not thinking. I think every manager in the history of organized baseball at any level would take the Physical Error over the judgement lapse.<br /><br />In Merkle's defense however, this was fairly common to do back in 1908. The real person to blame should be John McGraw since the same play happened a few weeks before to the Cubs and McGraw never warned his team once about the possibility of it happening again. For someone who had every baseball rule memorized, he is the one with no excuse and not a rookie baserunner.<br /><br />Rhys

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Rhys,<br /><br />I attribute Merkle's Boner to Johnny Ever's sharp mind. Neither John McGraw or Christy Mathewson blamed Merkle.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Dave S</b><p><br />Rhys, don't really think you can blame McGraw as he (and his entire team) claimed to be totally unaware of a two- week old rule.....<br />Johnny Evers was THE student of the rules of the dead-ball era, bar none. He knew the rules better than the umpires of the day, such that they often consulted him. Evers himself most likely may not have known the rule had he not been in a participant in the Pirate game from two weeks earlier..<br />And Merkle? Can you really blame a 19 year old kid for his exuberance after having the game-winning hit and reacting like any kid would have reacted? <br />Just a freak play surrounded by freaky circumstances. Yep, it changed the course of the 1908 season. Yep, it caused controversy and always will. But don't think anyone can be "blamed"...especially with such cloudiness surrounding so many different theories..

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>I agree that it was the brilliance of Johnny Evers rather than the stupidity of Fred Merkle that was responsible for "Merkle's Boner."<br /><br />Johnny Evers <b>did</b> know the rules in and out. I am certain I read somewhere, although I have not been able to put my fingers on the source, that a week or so prior to the Cubs/Giants game the exact same play occurred in a Cubs/Pirates game. It was common, at the time, if a batter batted home a runner who was on third base to win a game, for a runner on the other bases to just leave the field instead of bothering to touch their subsequent base. Evers insisted that this was a force out, which would negate the run, and warned the umpire that day that should a similar play arise again he was going to insist on the umpires calling a runner out if he failed to touch the succeeding base at the end of a game.<br /><br />And who was that umpire that Evers warned? None other than Hank O'Day, the man who called Merkle out!<br />

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Posted By: <b>sean</b><p>I put the blame on mcgraw as well. He had as sharp a baseball mind as you can get. With that in mind he should have been very aware of the gill incident 3 weeks earlier. I think his guilt is proven by the fact that not only did he not flip out on merkle (which he did countless times on other teammates) but he gave him a raise next season. Johnny Evers in one of my favorite players ever and that was once of the most brilliant plays simply because evers knew the rules (better than the umpires even). If the Gill incident hadnt happened, I would call this a freak play. Since it did happen, however, I am putting the blame on the one person who should have known about the gill incident and plastered it in his teams brains. I still think Mcgarw was one of the sharpest managers ever (if not THE best) but he missed a big one here.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Keep in mind that as soon as the apparent winning run crossed the plate, fans began to storm the field. While the play was ensuing, there was a level of chaos. A few of the Giants, McGinnity in particular, saw immediately that Merkle was out, but he was already lost in the crowd by the time Evers asked for the ball. It seems that several things went wrong at once.

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Posted By: <b>Ed</b><p>Poor Snodgrass. Nuf said.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Ed,<br /><br />Did you notice that both Merkle and Snodgrass were both Giants, not only that they were both managed by John McGraw and they both got raises the season after their errors. I have absolutely no idea what this means...but it is interesting. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter