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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>I was contacted through <a href="http://www.t206.org" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206.org</a> a few days ago by a woman in TN who claims to have found a Wagner "in a cigarette pack that was buried under some rims and tires on a piece of land my family has owned for a long time". She's sending me scans tonight or tomorrow to estimate it's condition. She said it did have some staining on the front though, so we'll see. This is pretty exciting! I will definitely share with the group.<br /><br />I just wonder how old these rims and tires must be to have a Sweet Cap pack buried under them! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I guess anything is possible... update to come soon.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>So what are you saying? you're just going to authenticate it for her, or are you going to buy it? etc...<br /><br />what's the plan here?

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>A NEW HEINIE WAGNER FIND!!!!!!!!11!! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Haha Dan! :D<br /><br />I am simply going to give her my opinion. I can't afford to purchase it from her even if it was real. Fortunately I just received the scans. I will communicate to her based on the general consensus here.<br /><br />Apparently it was a Piedmont pack.<br /><br />I've got to go "fake" on this one.<br /><br />No border... text for the name is a little too bold...<br /><br /><img src="http://www.mlbvintage.com/misc/wagnerfind.jpg"><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jim Clarke</b><p>Being in the Automotive industry. I would like to know the rims that were found? They did not make rims back in 1909 for cars. Sounds like a good story/find though

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Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>Interesting that she "found" this card so soon after the recent sale of another Wagner. <br><br>Go Go White Sox<br />2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>obviously fake (reprint)

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>It never ceases to amaze me how many stained/beatup Wagners show up with perfectly square corners.

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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>Obvious reprint:<br /><br />1. Borders too wide;<br />2. No corner wear;<br />3. Suspicous whitning area where word "Reprint" normally found above mont in Piedmont;<br />4. Typeface not properly centered top to bottom; and<br />5 "Pittsburg" misspelled <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>I let her know the card wasn't authentic and gave her a link to our thread here. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>To find a Wagner in a shoebox in an attic with other tobacco cards would indeed be astonishing; but to find one in a pack under a tire rim is beyond the realm of possibility!

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>Is the "land" for sale as well?

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Yeah..what idiot leaves thier full pack of cigarettes inside a tire rim....lol

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Obvious fake for all the reasons stated. I would love to see a photo of the supposed cigarette pack it came out of. There are a lot more fake Wagners than fake cigarette packs. I imagine you may get a few of these with the recent news of the $2.3 million dollar card. Time to cash in those reprints.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>If the land were her grandfather's the story might be a bit more believable.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys, <br /><br />Thanks for all the info, I'm starting to become good at spotting a fake. Your right, given all the abuse the card has gone through, there should be more wear on the corners.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>AndyH</b><p>I think we are all in agreement that this is not an authentic T206. <br /><br />However, the argument that the corners are too sharp to match the other damage is not totally accurate. IF the card were authentic, AND it were kept in a pack for all these years (untouched and under tires), then it is conceivable that the corners would remain sharp and the card would get stained by whatever drips on it. There is no other damage other than the staining, so sharp corners shouldn't be used to determine authenticity of this card.<br /><br />The darkness of the name and team on the front as well as the font size of the team name are dead give-aways though. And, as mentioned, the missing border around the image. <br /><br />Just my 2cents. <br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Andy

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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><font color=blue>You people are only saying it isn't real because you're racists! <br /><br /><br />Or am I talking about the wrong T206 Wagner?</font><br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>Russ Bright</b><p>given all the abuse???<br /><br /><br />given the 10 minutes to rub it in dirt, wait for your tea to steep to pour it over the card to make it look aged... there is a fine art to aging things... most of these idiots don't know anything about forgeries, they just want a quick buck...<br /><br />still makes me sick... it really does

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>I don't exactly think like what I'm about to say.... but,<br /><br />What if some collector did buy that reprint there after it had a splash of tea and buried in dirt... say a collector bought it for $80,000.<br /><br />What would be good about that, well... anyone who knows so little about cards as to buy that would be outbidding us on stuff we're after, and once he's paid $80k for a dirty reprint he'd have less cash to push our bids up. So maybe there is a good side to someone buying it for a pile of money.

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Posted By: <b>Richard Dwyer</b><p>Geez, I could've got 80,000 for this one! If I only would've been dishonest. If Alan Hagar slabbed it, it must be real. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />Note: I insisted Hagar put "Altered Reprint".<br /><br /><img src="http://rdwyer.250free.com/CIMG1603.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>No black line around the border<br />Wrong font style.<br /><br />It's as good as the one from the two guys from Detroit and she didn't pay $1800.00 for it. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>Speaking of spending exsorbant amounts of money on reprints, just check out some of the auctions on yahoo. If they are real bids, some buyers are bidding 30 dollars and up for obvious reprints. Suppose they maybe think they can fool someone out of even more money, ugh.

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Posted By: <b>jesika</b><p>I knok that everyone here thinks this card isnt real but i do have other people looking at right now i didnt know anything about it untill just the other day i have had this card for a long time my gradfather has taken real good care of it since i was a little girl and found it when cleaning out the back yard i know its real b/c i found it in the cigg pack myself but i do like to hear your thoughts and i would like to hear more and if anyone could find a good close up pic on any other REAL honus wagner cards please send them to me thanks

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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>We would suggest you have one of the grading companies evaluate the card for you. Trae will be able to give you the information.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Unfortunately no, it is not real. Below is a pic of a real Wagner...the lettering of yours isn't right, the borders of yours aren't outlined correctly...and the chances of finding a Wagner with a Piedmont back are slim at best (not impossible) but much less likely than finding a Sweet Caporal back. Since your grandfather probably wasn't around collecting packs of smokes in 1909, I'm going to assume he would have picked up the item much later...and by that time reprints would have already been out. <br /><br />Edited to say...by all means send it to PSA or SGC for professional grading. It would be WELL worth the money if you had a real card.<br /><br /><img src="http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/asphaltman76/23.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>jesika</b><p>I wish i could see another honus wagner card that for a fact was real but i cant seem to find a real good picture of one like mine front and back <br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Jessica can you post a picture of the cigarette pack itself?

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Posted By: <b>jesika</b><p><br />I would have to get my gradfather to get it for me any actually my greatgrandfather did smoke and those were his rims and car parts from where he used to work on his cars in the back yard beside our house

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Posted By: <b>jesika</b><p>But how do i send it off i am sort of scared to b/c of loosing it even if its not real i dont want to loose it

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Is the lettering of the card at the bottom black like it looks in the scans?

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Jessica, you can find a gallery of Wagner's here:<br /><a href="http://www.t206.org/gallery.php" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206.org/gallery.php</a><br /><br />He's in the first link under the<br />"The Big 4" title in the first column.<br /><br />As Dave said, we'd love to see a picture of<br />the pack you found this card in.

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Posted By: <b>jesika</b><p>oh and another thing i thought a fake if you put it to a light you wouldnt be able to see through it i can see straight through this one and the print is perfect and there is a border arround the pic

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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>I will reiterate:<br /><br />Look carefully at the white space above the "mont" in the word Piedmont on the reverse. Many, though not all, of the reprints have the word Reprint in that space. It may appear to you upon examination that the area has been rubbed down. If so that's going to clinch the fact that it is a reprint.

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Posted By: <b>jesika</b><p>yes it is black but where would reprint be on the card if it was a reprint i want to look at that

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Go to www.sgccard.com There is a customer service number on thier site, and for a real Wagner you'd want to arrange a time to take a trip to SGC yourself and they would do a 2 hour service for $100.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>If the words "Wagner, Pittsburg" are in black....don't bother wasting your time with a grading service...case closed its fake and probably worth about $2.00

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Posted By: <b>jesika</b><p>well i have to go back to work i will write back later and check your messages thanks for the info and i will keep you updated

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>By the way..here is where the word reprint is located on the back...and where yours is "really white"<br /><br /><img src="http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/asphaltman76/92_1_b.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dave, that's a very well done reprint and the front really looks good. And that's actually a bad thing.

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Another problem with the card that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is that all the letters in "PITTSBURG" seem to be the same height. On authentic T206s of Pittsburg players, the "P" is taller. For example:<br /><br /><img src="http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/sreader3/Pittsburg.jpg"> <br />

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>can't believe we are still on this...<br /><br />very simply, the name & team at the bottom is black (should be brown) and the font size is all the same height (on a real T206 card, the first letter of the team is larger then the rest of the word)...<br /><br />reprint/fake...<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>I have the only known Babe Ruth 1914 Cracker Jack and aint showing nobody. I may sell it if someone wants to purchase my Ocean front property, to boot, in Arizona. All offers consider over 19,000,000.00

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Posted By: <b>girl in tn</b><p>explain why the letters on the bottom of that card are black

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Explain why the letters on which card are black?

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Posted By: <b>girl in tn</b><p>leach pittsburg

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Very simply...the letters on any real T206 are more of a brown shade, not black like the ones in your card. Also it is true the players last name and then the first letter in the team name should be larger than the other letters in the team name...yours are all the same size.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>The letters on the Leach are a grayish brown..not dark black.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>I wouldn't be too interested in the card...but if you can provide a scan of the cigarette pack I would possibly be interested in buying it (provided its the right time period)

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Posted By: <b>girl in tn</b><p>well if the word reprint had been wiped off wouldnt i be able to tell it and i cant so i hate to keep going with this but i do need some advise and i dont know anything about it im not trying to rip anyone off i just think that all of you are wrong it has to be the real thing i found it and i dought that they would go through that much trouble to make someone belive it