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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Ripken and Gwynn were elected in true landslides. Gossage was close. McGwire wasn't.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>really needed to have a third electee to remain interesting.

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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>The HOF is a joke, and the writers who elect the players are an even bigger joke. Dante Bichette received three( yes, three...not one) votes. Enough said.

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Posted By: <b>Andy Baran</b><p>I'm hoping that Jim Rice, Rich Gossage, and Andre Dawson have a good shot at getting in next year. The only new candidate who has any legitimate chance will be Tim Raines. Ricky Henderson is the only legitimate candidate in 2009. Slim picking over the next couple of years. The only problem is that Jim Rice is almost at the end of his eligibility by the writers.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>I think they all have a good shot (all had more than 50% this year, which is a good indication that they are still in the running...)<br />I'm with you on those 3<br /><br />I kinda hope McGwire never gets in, but that is far too idealistic and silly of me...<br /><br />So sad to see Bichette and Buhner bow out so quickly - seriously, who voted for Jay Buhner!?!?!?<br />see, those wasted votes are exactly the reason that guys like Dawson, Gossage and Rice don't get in, and that just chaps my bottom!<br />

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Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>Jason,<br /><br />Frank Costanza voted for Buehner. He had a rocket for an arm!<br><br>Go Go White Sox<br />2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: <b>jP</b><p>cmon what a joke they gotta let Garvey in and eventually the "bulldog" <br /><br />go dodgers!<br><br>my collection: <a href="http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/obaks/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/obaks/</a>

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>One of my favorite players was former Blue Jays and Yankee infielder Tony Fernandez and it's good to see that he got four votes. <br /><br />I expected around eight, but four is okay for the first ballot. Hopefully next year, he will have a better chance with such a weak class and we are aiming for double digit votes! <br /><br />Tony Fernandez .288 ba 2276 hits 94 hrs <br />Phil Rizzuto .273 ba 1588 hits 38 hrs<br />Bobby Doerr .288 ba 2042 hits 223 hrs (juiced?)<br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>Tony Fernandez will need to be a write-in next year, because since he only garnered 0.7% of the vote this year (less than the 5% minimum), his name will be automatically dropped for future balloting.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Do we know the percentage of votes McGwire got?

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>McGwire got 23.5%<br /><br />apologies for formatting, but here's the results:<br /><br /><br />2007 BBWAA Hall of Fame Voting Results<br /> <br />Candidate Votes<br /> % of Votes <br />Cal Ripken Jr. 537 98.5 <br />Tony Gwynn 532 97.6 <br />Rich Gossage 388 71.2 <br />Jim Rice 346 63.5 <br />Andre Dawson 309 56.7 <br />Bert Blyleven 260 47.7 <br />Lee Smith 217 39.8 <br />Jack Morris 202 37.1 <br />Mark McGwire 128 23.5 <br />Tommy John 125 22.9 <br />*Steve Garvey 115 21.1 <br />Dave Concepcion 74 13.6 <br />Alan Trammell 73 13.4 <br />Dave Parker 62 11.4 <br />Don Mattingly 54 9.9 <br />Dale Murphy 50 9.2 <br />Harold Baines 29 5.3 <br />Orel Hershiser 24 4.4 <br />Albert Belle 19 3.5 <br />Paul O'Neill 12 2.2 <br />Bret Saberhagen 7 1.3 <br />Jose Canseco 6 1.1 <br />Tony Fernandez 4 0.7 <br />Dante Bichette 3 0.6 <br />Eric Davis 3 0.6 <br />Bobby Bonilla 2 0.4 <br />Ken Caminiti 2 0.4 <br />Jay Buhner 1 0.2 <br />Scott Brosius 0 0.0 <br />Wally Joyner 0 0.0 <br />Devon White 0 0.0 <br />Bobby Witt 0 0.0 <br />

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>The writers are a friggin joke. One writer left his ballot blank. That was to make sure than neither Ripken nor Gwynn were elected unanomously. <br /><br />Did I tell you the story about waking Cal up at 2:30 in the morning during spring training? Well that's another thread. Joe<br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Wow- McGwire only got 23.5%, that's a dismal showing for sure. He is likely to never get in. How many players who show that poorly the first time make it to 75%? I would guess nobody ever has. And yes, the one vote for Jay Buhner had to be Frank Costanza.

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>A write in? Tony is screwed! How about the Veteran's commitee? 2076?<br /><br />What does the (*) mean beside Garvey's name?<br /><br />I'm pleased with the stand that the writer's took by disallowing "The Hulk" with less than 25%. <br /><br />I could be wrong but did Tom Seaver come closest to 100%? <br /><br />DJ<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Griffin's</b><p>I"m betting the * next to Garvey means his last year on the writers ballot.

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Posted By: <b>Chris Bland</b><p>If youre gonna keep McGwire out for using performance enhancers, better check out all those players who popped greenies for a little extra boost and get them out of there. Also might want to kick out Cap Anson who was pivotal in keeping blacks out of baseball, Ty Cobb, who reportedly beat a man to death, etc etc.<br /><br />I am not saying McGwire belongs in the HOF, but the Hall would be a lot emptier if we started examining everyone's careers as closely as we are examining his.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>One of the 2 blank ballots sent in was by a sports writer who said he's not voting for anyone from the steroid era until the dust settles and we see who did and who didn't. Not saying I agree with him, that's just what he said.<br />I remember reading that when Babe Ruth was up the first time, a couple of writers didn't vote for him because they said he was one dimensional and could only slug. What a bunch of morons, ignoring the fact he saved the game after the Black Sox and also was a helluva pitcher. <br />BTW Tom Seaver's 98.8% vote is the highest ever although not one person here would say he was the greatest pitcher ever (I don't think)....

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Posted By: <b>Aaron Cowan</b><p>It looks like Gossage, Rice and Dawson will have a good chance in the next couple of years. Considering that 83 votes went towards players who garnered less than %5, Gossage was 21 votes away, Rice was 63, and Dawson was 100. I can see Orel and Albert getting a very very little bit of consideration, but from O'Neill down why are those idiots throwing their votes away? The HOF is screwed up. Years ago they let in tons of people because the vets had fond memories of the fellow players. Now you have to truly dominate. Consider the dominant first basemen from the 90s to the present: Bagwell, Thomas, McGwire, McGriff, Pujols, Helton, Thome, Delgado, Palmeiro. I'm not saying all these guys deserve it, but how many will get in from one position. After all, the writers should consider how dominant a player was at their position in respect to the their contemporaries. <br /><br />With all that said, I'm glad the voting went the way it did and hope to see Gossage, Rice, Dawson and even Lee Smith in there soon. As for McGwire....good riddance.<br><br>Aaron Cowan<br />acowan19@gmail.com

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Bob- Growing up in NY and being a Mets fan, I saw Seaver pitch regularly in his prime, and I have to tell you, he was as good as any pitcher I have ever seen. He had a rising fastball that was simply frightening. I'm not saying he is the best ever, but seeing him so often was a special treat.

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Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>Rice is on the bubble, but the modern players (1970-2001) are in a different era than the vintage guys (1890-1920). They should elect more players from the vintage era since it was a whole different ball game back then. Mcgwire will never get in<br />because his statements to the American public a few years ago sealed it for him. Of course IMHO.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Red Barber who has watched and called more games than anyone once said 5 years ago that if his life depended on the outcome of a game and he could choose one pitcher to pitch, he would choose Carl Hubbell.<br />I think Seaver was a heckuva pitcher but he belongs in the Jim Palmer-Bob Gibson class, not the Walter Johnson-Lefty Grove class.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Too young to have seen Grove, Hubbell, or Johnson- but I would guess nobody was in Johnson's class. I saw Palmer and Gibson in their prime, I remember Gibson's 1968 season vividly, and you just couldn't score a run off him. Palmer was a terror too. It's always tough to say who is best.

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Seaver was the best. The writers have spoken. (OK, so I was a four year old kid in NY when the '69 Mets won the world series, so maybe I'm biased).<br /><br />I always like to tell the story of the four guys who didn't vote for Seaver. Two writers didn't vote for him as a protest for Pete Rose not being on the ballot. One didn't vote for him because he was sedated in a hospital and filled out his ballot incorrectly. The final writer didn't vote for him to ensure that no one would be elected unanimously. As far as I'm concerned, that's "practical" unanimity.<br /><br />By the way, to answer Barry's question, players have come back from very low vote totals to be elected -- even by the writers. I believe Luke Appling and Luis Aparacio both had vote totals below 20% and then were elected. If you include guys elected by the veterans committee, then the numbers go even lower. I think Earl Averill received one total vote from the writers ever, but was elected by the veterans committee. (I may be mixing some people up here, but all of the data is listed alphabetically by player on the HOF website). I don't think McGwire will make this kind of comeback, unless his low vote total this year was just a symbolic protest to keep him out of the Hall for one year.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Paul- those are interesting numbers, but McGwire is the beginning of a long line of steroid users, most notably Sosa, Palmiero, and the granddaddy of them all- Bonds. Aparicio and Appling had no dirty laundry. We shall see.

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Barry, I agree. I don't think McGwire stands a chance with the writers unless (and I think it's unlikely) this year's vote was just a one-time protest to send some kind of a message.

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>McGwire, Dawson, Rice will go in next year. They just made a statement with not voting in McGwire this year. Cant overlook his 70 HRs and crazy HR%. Best power of his era, and everyone stopped to watch his ABs. But then again Canseco had the same qualities 10 years earlier. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Bonds this Bonds that. Id like to see the list of the 100 players (3 per team ave) that had positive tests in 2003. How many of these big boys are on that list (not including the obvious bigheaded HGH users) Pujols, Thomas, ARod, Posada, Thome, Delgado, Hafner, Teixeira, Edmonds, Rolen, Ramirez, Ortiz, A & C. Jones, Dunn, Glaus, Konerko, Ordonez, Tejada, Gomes, Giles, Nevin, etc. etc.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I think Bonds gets in here in his 2nd year. The first year will be a protest vote, the 2nd year he gets in because he was a HOFer before he started juicing it. IMHO.<br />I also have a problem with Roger Clemens. There have been rumors of his possible steroid involvement (how does some one gain more velocity and get bigger and stronger in the twilight of his career), but I think he'll be in the Hall also. So far the pitchers have received a free pass in all the steroid talk, it will be interesting to see what comes down the line.<br />I also noticed the absence of Tony Oliva in the voting this year, I guess last year was his last. A real tragedy, hopefully the veteran's committee will vote him along with Ed Reulbach and Bill Dahlen.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Many voters said they would vote for McGwire when the steroids cloud hanging over<br />him clears up-- specifically when he addresses the issue, the last time he addressed<br />it being when he testified before Congress. At the least, McGwire created an unanswered <br />question by the testimony, an unanswered question he has refused to address much<br />less answer ... It should be noted that if he did use steroids ilegally, he might <br />be unwilling to say so freely for fear of legal issues. There is a Federal steroids case<br />going on.<br /><br />A practical problem for a writer may be that if he votes for McGwire this <br />year, McGwire might admit next year he used steroids throughout the 1990s, <br />and the writer can't take that vote back if it put him into the Hall of<br />Fame. Considering there are 15 years to vote for a player, and McGwire <br />obviously is in no hurry address the situtation, a prudent writer may wait for<br />later years to consider voting for McGwire. Neither Joe DiMaggio nor Jimmie Foxx <br />were voted into the Hall in their first years, so there's no rule writers can't wait<br />to vote in a player. History doesn't look poorly on DiMaggio because he wasn't <br />voted in right away.<br /><br />The steroid issue effects McGwire much more than Bonds. With McGwire, 90 percent<br />(or more) of his HOFerability is his home run totals from the mid to late 1990s.<br />Without those home runs, he would not be a Hall of Famer. With Bonds, on the<br />other hand, if he had never hit more than 30 home runs, he would have still been a HOFer-- <br />batting average, stolen bases, fielding, etc.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>McGuire is a poor man's Harmon Killebrew, but the Killer played it clean.

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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>I have no problem with ordinary players getting a vote or two. It has nothing to do with why Dawson, Rice and Gossage have not been elected. Writers know that certain players won't get in so they sometimes give a token vote to one or two of those guys for sentimental reasons. It may not be right but it's not as if those votes would instead have gone to more deserving players.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>No way McGwire gets in next year. Too far to go in votes and too many writers will object for years. I read an article recently in the NY Times I believe that noted that players not elected on the first ballot usually get elected in years in which there are NO first ballot HOFs elected. This explains why Gossage and, let's say, Rice, didn't get in this year but will next year as there are no clear first timers. Clearly Gossage belongs. In my mind, so does Rice, Dawson and Garvey. These guys dominated a decade or so of baseball. Isn't that enough? (Though I recognize that Garvey has no shot at this point except through the vet's committee)

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Posted By: <b>Andrew Parks</b><p>Tom Terrific would probably be on my all-time greatest staff:<br /><br />Walter Johnson<br />Lefty Grove<br />Tom Seaver<br />Satchell Paige<br />Christy Mathewson<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>And Andrew Parks is now on my list of favorite board members!

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Posted By: <b>Andrew Parks</b><p>SWEET!<br /><br />Seriously, though, if you look at the ERA of Seaver versus his contemporaries...he crushes. His Relative ERA is off the charts - same as Lefty Grove.<br /><br />I know people will question my decision to keep Cy Young and Pete Alexander off, but I think there's something not quite right about four of the greatest picthers ever coming from the same era...things that make ya go hmmmm.

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Posted By: <b>Andrew Parks</b><p>By the way - I just booked my Hall-of-Fame weekend. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>I think its ridiculous to hold a player out of the Hall due to cheating. Cheating is a part of baseball and always has been. Ty Cobb once called baseball "as ungentlemanly as a kick in the crotch." Dextroamphetimine use has been rampent since atleast the 1940's. These media folks need to get off their high horse. You cant single out one player and punish him. I do understand waiting to vote the man in after the cloud clears up a bit but if he never gets in on the grounds of "cheating" that would be a travesty, because u might as well kick out 98% of the other guys in that case too. I have a book called it aint cheatin' if you don't get caught, and its all about the history and the incredible amount of cheating thats taken place in our national pastime. Its a fun read.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dylan,<br /><br />I agree with you cheating has always been part of the game. If they exclude McGwire, the HOF should kick out Gaylord Perry for admitting to throwing spitters.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>If you say it's ok to cheat, then why even play the game? <br /><br />Those stories may be a fun read, but what's the use in immortalizing a cheater? It's as though you are saying, "Congratulations, you were one of the best that ever played the game...even though you weren't limited by the rules like everyone else"<br /><br />No high horse here, I just don't see the sense in celebrating someone who didn't know how to play the game.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>In the Old West, if you were caught cheating at cards you were shot dead. If they<br />had no proof, you were only shot.

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>Barry,to answer your question about someone having a lower vote total and making it. I dont know how many players have but one of my favorite being a Pirates fan is the fact in 1946 Paul Waner got 4 votes,a total that would now kick him off the ballot. He wasnt elected till 1952<br /><br />Billy Williams also got 23% of the votes his first year and ended up being elected about 5 years later

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>David,<br /><br />Your exactly right. Andro was not a banned substance when Mark was using it. Maybe he just didn't want to talk about it in from of Congress. That is far from getting caught cheating. If nothing changes...McGwire should go in HOF next year.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>Anyone think that McGwire facilitated the discovery of andro in his locker in order to deflect suspicions about illegal steroid use?

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>I feel bad for McGwire because he didn't lie in a congressional hearing and he didn't deny using steroids like a few others did. He's the poster child of the steroid/HOF era. It's too bad that he's the first known candidate to be shunned because he's honest in that he didn't deny what he did. <br /><br />I want to see what happens to Barry when his time comes around. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I think it's tough to compare players from different eras based on numbers alone. Look at Mathewson's year in 1905: He won 32 - but 17 pitchers that year won at least 20. There were 219 shutouts that year in baseball and nearly 2000 complete games.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>McGwire won't be voted in before he discusses satisfactarily the issue to the public. <br />Many voters have specfically said they won't vote for him until he talks. This<br />includes voters who are otherwise inclined to vote hor him. If McGwire doesn't say<br />anything in the next year, I don't know how that will gain him more votes.

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Posted By: <b>whycough</b><p> I always enjoy reading the posts on subjects like this. I always wonder about some of the people who are allowed to vote for entrace into the hall: I wonder if they are old enough to have seen a Gossage or Rice play or how much they know about baseball's history. I think perhaps there should be some kind of test taken before voting rights are granted. I think that being a beat writer covering today's Major League scene might not be enough.<br /> I always wonder about people who can look at McGuire's hyperbolic body and shrug it off by talking about some pitcher who cut the ball on his belt buckle. Then I remind myself that we live in times where two wrongs do make a right. On McGuire: I like to remember seeing McGuire being interviewed in the Card's locker room in the days he was smashing the ol' pill and he was in a cut-short tee shirt that showed his biceps bulging and my reponse was laughter. The same kind of automatic laughter that sprang from my diaphragm when I saw Arnold Schwarzenegger in a preview of the coming movie, Conan the Barbarian. <br /> Andrew, as far as including Seaver in the top five of all time, I would answer that, of the twirlers I've been lucky enough to see, I would rate Pedro, Koufax, Bob Gibson, and maybe Spahn as being superior to Tom Terrific (anyone else remember Tom Terrific?). I suspect that a healthy Pedro was as good as anyone who took the hill.

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Posted By: <b>Harry Wallace (HW)</b><p>I was really pulling for Rice. Too bad.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />If your ready to hang McGwire based on circumstantial evidence, why don't we just do the same with Roger "Rocket" Clemens. Wasn't he also mentioned as a steroid user in Canseco's book. Weren't there times when his actions were erratic like those of a steroid user.<br /><br />Doesn't his high level of performance at a late age suspect. Isn't he pretty buff also.<br /><br />Why don't we exclude him also. What I'm saying is that you really don't have that much more on McGwire.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>DMcD</b><p>"This is like deja vu all over again." -Yogi Berra

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I compare athletes using steroids to signing a contract with the Devil, and everyone knows how<br />a contract with the Devil works. Palmiero knows.