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My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: David SmithBarry, No, I do not think the board is imploding. I think some people are coming to the realization that our "hobby" is a business and they don't like it. I know I don't. My story. During high school and the early college years, I used my extra money to buy my friends card collections and some of the few collections that were advertised in my local paper. I didn't party like my friends. Why? Because 1) I can't stand the taste of beer, 2) I was usually the designated driver and 3) I would rather spend my money on cards than alcohol. Ten years ago, well a little over 10 years ago, I had just graduated from college, started in my first REAL job and had the time, money and energy to go out looking for OLD baseball cards. I enjoyed the chase and occasionally, I actually found some cool things. One time I found over 1,000 tobacco cards from the 1880's. Unfortunately, only three were baseball. N28's of Clarkson, Keefe and Caruthers. There were other N28's of athletes and also of Annie Oakley and Wild Bill Hickok. There were also over 100 cards of Indians. Worse yet, the cards were out of my price range and I wasn't able to buy them. The good thing that came out of that find was that in doing research about cards that old, I learned a lot and I also met an old-time collector who had a really nice collection (he owned a REAL T206 Wagner) and was very knowledgable about Pre-War cards. So, for a few years, I had someone I could talk to about old cards and ask questions of. I would go to flea markets and antique shows looking for cards/memorabilia and if there were things I found but either didn't want/collect or didn't have enough money for, I would talk to XXX about them and see if he was interested. One time I found 11 T200 Fatima team cards (9 different) and another time I found a bunch of cards from the early 1920's, including over 20 Curtis Ireland cards. Both times I didn't have enough money to buy them but XXX did. For my trouble, i.e, my time and gasoline, XXX gave me a team card and a Curtis Ireland card. He also traded cards with me. One time we made a lopsided trade (in my favor) and I think he did it so as to keep me energized about old cards (and to continue looking for them) when I was feeling down. Down because I was finding these great things but couldn't add them to my collection. That, to me, is what the hobby used to be about. Now, like someone else said, things are NOT done in person very much. I mean, you log onto your computer and check eBay, Net54 and the large auction company sites. I don't go to card shops or shows anymore because 1) there aren't that many around and 2) those that are deal mostly in new shiny crap. Also, I don't have the money (not getting into that story). With this non-personal type of collecting, I don't know a lot of the players and I can not hold the object (card or memorabilia) in my hand for inspection. Because of this (and very little money), I have to REALLY know who I am dealing with. Lately, it is getting harder and harder for me to trust ANYBODY. I mean, fake cards being sold on eBay that look REALLY good, allegations of trimmed and/or restored cards in major auctions, allegations of trimmed cards and grade inflation by the grading services (all based on WHO submits the cards)and this latest fiasco with JP Cohen and Memory Lane. The problem I have with the BUSINESS of baseball cards is the registries and one-upmanship that goes along with it. It used to be the type of car a person owned, then it was the number of cars a person owned. Then, it moved to houses and yachts and art. Now, it is baseball cards. For some, the game, the history or just owning a certain baseball card is not good enough. It has to be at least a PSA 6 or 7. To others, not even those grades are high enough, it has to be an 8, 9 or 10!!! With this type of competition and the dollars that go along with it, it is no wonder that the seedy and criminal element has found their way into cards and memorabilia. A criminal might think (and I assume do) "Hey, if I can buy a PSA 6 and then trim it so that it becomes an 8 or 9 AND I can get it graded, why not?" In this scenario, PSA (or any other grading company) makes more money on the regrade (the revenue helps the stock price, if the company is publicly traded), the criminal sends the card to an auction house and they make money on the consignment and the sale. The person buying the card gets some bragging rights and moves higher up the registry. And on it goes. To me, what is going to have to happen so as to get the business some what back to hobby status is a MAJOR scandal. Something like a grading company being convicted of knowingly grading trimmed cards. An auction house being convicted of shill bidding or card restoration. A big time set registry person being convicted of running a scam dealing with high grade cards, etc. I know it seems a lot of people are being negative on the board lately but I think they have a right to. I know I have been and that is because I don't think some things are fair and honest. There are people out there who KNOW shady things are going on yet they don't speak up. Why I don't know. There are people out there DOING shady things. Again, why? I don't know. What I do know is that with my limited collecting budget I have to be careful about what I buy and that is concerning only $20 dollar cards. I can not imagine what type of stress a person buying a $20,000 card goes thru. That is why I am glad some of these negative things are coming out. So people can see what (allegedly) is going on and what and who they should be dealing with (or not). Thanks for letting me vent (and giving me an outlet to do so), David

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: Cobby33If PSA grades a "potentially-trimmed" card a PSA 8, for example, then what's the problem? Why must we go out of our to find something wrong with it? And save for someone who actually manufactured and cut these cards, who really knows whether something is actually trimmed? What about the "hand-cut" T215 Pirate backs? I sure hope we're not so skeptical about everything in our lives. What a miserable way to live. (And no, I"m not burying my head in the sand- I just try not to live my life looking for problems).

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: Frank WakefieldHey David, That resembles my experience. And I agree. We've lost that mentoring. And this "e board" is the closest we can get to that when we buy on eBay and the like. Seldom do I buy a graded card. I trust my ability to ascertain authenticity much more than some grader. Wish we could all just go back to collecting cards, and talking about that, instead of auction folks and grading and non-card stuff. Frank.

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: Dave GAmen brother!!!!!! trot over to the Non-sport board - see a similar discussion........

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: JimCrandellDave, Its interesting that on the non-sports board that there are no disagreements among graded and non-graded collectors but on this board because of the presence of certain individuals who think graded cards and the people who collect them are the root of all evil that discussions here end up in arguments. Jim

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: barrysloateDavid- that answer took you a long time to compose, but I see you have many issues you wanted to discuss. I think the objects people collect are wonderful, but all the collateral business of how they transact, and how they get from the seller to the buyer, is what distresses many of us. The only small point I might disagree with is I don't think a grading service will deliberately put a trimmed card in a holder to collect their $15 so that the stock remains strong. No matter how cynical one is I can't believe things have gotten that bad. Perhaps they will carelessly grade a trimmed card, but I don't think they are running that kind of shell game.

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: Dave GWe've just had a heated similar discussion on the Non-sport board - it was fun <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> But we cleared the air <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Didn;t solve any problems, but at least we cleared the air <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: JimCrandellDave G, I saw that--it looked like it was friendly though. I like friendly discussions--not personal attacks.

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: Dave G.....we kept it mostly civilized <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>)<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Marty and I just blew hot air at one another <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: Denny WalshDavid, I do agree with you! I to also am waiting for something crazy ta happen. It seems inevitable! And yes, I admit it, I am mainly a lurker, but I do wish I had more time to contribute to the board. But every now and again I like to chime in, Just to know that I am a part of the Net54 family. The cards are what get me excited about coming here! You guys are all absolutely grand in nature. Basically, I don't believe that the slab company's will rewrite the history of were the cards came from or were they're going. There is alot of truth on this board. No matter who is sharing their experience. I do have the tendency to overlook the bickering and seek the knowledge that is here, But the Spice that seems to infiltrate into the daily life of this board can be very exilerating! And Yes, even the members who can't seem to stop tonge whipping eachother have a lot to offer. I want to thank you all for being real. It doesn't happen everday that we can meet people who give their all at being themsleves. Oh yeah, there is still a complete balance to the board....A lot of positive people here who just make this place very full with history of the hobby & the game. "This board is a part of my daily life", (and that's just a grand ding ta know!!!) Denny Walsh

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: warshawlawIt is the continual stream of chatter from those who insist on turning everything about card collecting into some sort of competition or proclamation of the greatness of their preferred collecting methodology. Speaking for myself, I am sick of every other thread here being about grading, money or who is the best or has the best. Look at some of the thread titles on the front page as I write this: The most famous hobby person that posts The one hundred greatest collectors of all time Which sets do you think are ready to take off price-wise? Flipping cards [I was hopeful on this one until I found it was looking for sales advice] Enough already...I feel like I'm listening to a bunch of braggarts in a bar.

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: DJUnfortunately, I agree 100% with Adam W. He hit it on the head. It's a different place since the new neighbors moved into this peaceful forum. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> DJ

My two cents about the board and the "hobby".

Posted By: peter chaoDJ, Adam Your concerns are noted, but take this message board and topics with a grain of salt. Take all of this as having a bit of fun and many things are said tongue in cheek. For instance "the most famous hobby person posting" was meant to stimulate discussion and let me get a better feel for the different people that do post on this board. It wasn't intended that people would actually tally up the votes and then award a trophy. Let's hope that doesn't happen. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I understand you guys are serious collectors, but hopefully not too serious. Peter