They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Here is a question that should stimulae the brain cells of our<br />most talented baseball trivia buffs.<br /><br />Can you tell us who is best player at each position<br />(including three outfielders and a right and left-handed pitcher)<br />along with the four infield positions and the catcher slot<br />who played at least two seasons (between 1886 and 1986) but<br />never managed to make an appearance on a regular issue<br />baseball card.<br /><br />Pictures on team cards (such as the 1956 Topps team card<br />or on club issued photographs or post cards do not count.<br /><br />For the purposes of this exercise, let's also exclude any player<br />who did not play in Major Leagues ( i.e. American, National<br />Federal and Player Leagues).<br /><br />Cuban and Negro Players who never played in the Major Leagues<br />should be excluded.<br /><br />When completed this should be a very interesting team.<br /><br />Any comments on why a particular player never made it<br />on to a regular issue baseball card would be most appreciated.<br /><br />Looking forward to reading your responses.<br /><br /><br />Bruce

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>ErikV</b><p>Great trivia question! Here's my submission. This player played 6 seasons in the American Association, his last being in 1886. As far as I know his likeness was never produced on a baseball card. <br /><br />John Lee Richmond (or simply Lee Richmond) (born May 5, 1857 in Sheffield, Ohio - died October 1, 1929 in Toledo, Ohio) was a left-handed pitcher who threw the first perfect game in major league baseball history. He played for the Worcester, Massachusetts Worcesters (no nickname). <br /><br />On June 12, 1880, after staying up all night at a pregraduation party at Brown University, Richmond played in an early-morning baseball game between his alma mater and Yale. He skipped lunch to reach Worcester in time for his starting assignment. The game which was played at the Worcester Agricultural Fairgrounds near the intersection of Sever St. and Highland St. in Worcester lasted 1 hour and 26 minutes. <br /><br />In his perfect game, Richmond struck out five, allowed only three balls to be hit out of the infield, and, remarkably, got one of his 27 outs when the right fielder threw the batter out at first base. Worcester beat Cleveland 1-0, with the only run scoring on an error by the Cleveland second baseman. <br /><br />Five days later Monte Ward threw baseballs' second perfect game. <br /><br />Sometimes called J. Lee Richmond, in a 6-season career, statistics show that he was 75-100 with a 3.06 ERA in 191 games, 179 starts. 161 of those starts were complete games, 8 of them shutouts, and one of those his famous perfect game. He had 552 strike outs in 1583 career innings pitched. After leaving baseball, Richmond became a doctor and later a professor.<br />

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>Some of the positions were relatively easy, but others were a real stretch. Most of the decent infielders actually made it onto a card. For better or for worse:<br /><br />LP - Frank Killen<br />RP - Will White<br /> C - Mike Grady<br />1B - Ed Cartwright<br />2B - Bill Everitt<br />3B - Fred Hartman<br />SS - Bill Keister<br />OF - Bill Lange<br />OF - Jake Stenzel<br />OF - Steve Brodie<br /><br />Nig Cuppy and Jack Stivetts deserve mention as pitchers. Jake Virtue and Perry Werden deserve mention as first basemen. Davy Force deserves mention at shortstop. Charley Jones, Chick Stahl and Duff Cooley deserve mention as outfielders. Cal McVey deserves mention somewhere, but I didn't know where to put him.<br /><br />

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Cuppy and Virtue both had cards issued, in the easily found and affordable Just So set. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Brad Green</b><p><br />Don't you need a manager for this team?<br />

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>Todd:<br /><br />Completely forgot about Cuppy's and Virtue's cards in Just So, but then it's easy to forget an issue that is too expensive for me to even dream about. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I also sort of ignored Duff Cooley's Allegheny issue and Steve Brodie's Alpha Photo Engraving issue since they were not generally distributed as well as Chick Stahl's and Bill Lange's Sporting News supplements since they were not cards.<br /><br />Kevin

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>Quite possibly the greatest talent to EVER play baseball never appeared on a baseball card.<br /><br />Louis Sockalexis<br /><br />I dont think you can even begin this conversation without mention of him.<br /><br />Rhys Yeakley

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Rhys, <br /><br />Where does the Cameo Pepsin pin of Sockalexis fit in? It's obviously not a card, but it should probably be considered a "major" issue. I don't know if that fits here or not. <br /><br />The way I collect players, I try to get one of every card a player had. I also include premiums and major issue pins, even though they aren't technically cards. I also don't consider cabinet cards or CDVs to be cards, but would include them as items I would need for my player collection if they had any. <br /><br />-Ryan

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>WW II ERA PLAYERS when no cards were issued<br />nick etten 1b<br />ray sanders 1b<br />elmer riddle rhp 20 game winner<br />1930's<br />earl webb of holds record for doubles 67 in 1931<br />i don't think these 4 have cards but not 100% sure<br />

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Etten: 1941 Double Play<br />Riddle: W711 1940 Reds issue<br />Webb: 1930 4-in-1 Exhibits<br /><br />This is a great thread, and if you think only about the 20th century, it's really tough to make a team... <br /><br />

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Since Negro Leaguers are excluded, I think this list should be dominated by players whose careers ended before 1887. Almost every other quality player should have a card. I don't know enough about the players from before 1887 to contribute much, but I think George Wright should be at the top of the shortstop list (unless studio cabinets are "cards" in which case it will be real tough to find quality players with no cards at all).

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Although this isnt an all-star by any means,i bought a game used bat of Rusty Tillman from when he was with the Mets in 1982. He played 3 different years with 3 different teams during the era of traded sets and 3 different regular issue sets and he didnt have a card issued from his major league days. I had planned to display his card right above the bat and had to settle for a minor league card of him which i luckily already had. When i read the title it was the first thing i thought of.<br /><br /> I also looked for a card of Jack Martin years ago,he played for the 1912 Yankees as well as the Miracle Braves 2 years later and he never had a card issued.Wouldve been nice to get a card of him since i work right off a street named for him

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>Ryan<br /><br />The Cameo Pepsin pin is certainly the Holy grail of Sockalexis stuff, (If you exclude the only known signature of him which is on a beautiful and unique cabinet photo at the Holy Cross University Archieves). However; since Bruce titled it "old cardboard", I think he was trying to limit it to cards only. <br /><br />Aside from the Monster Imperial Cabinet photo I own, and about 3-4 other authentic photographs known to exist in private hands, there is essentially nothing of Sockalexis in the open market (there are a few other things in Archieves and museums). Rhett and I grew up in the town he was from and I used to play Hockey at the Louis Sockalexis Ice Arena (and weekend Bingo Hall). All of his personal stuff was burned in a fire or lost while he was a homeless itenerant, and the Penobscot tribe itself owns almost nothing of his.<br /><br />It is claimed that two Cameo Pepsin pins exist, but I think there is only one single example. I would be happy to eat crow on that statement if it is wrong, but I dont think it is.<br /><br />Rhys

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Hugh Daily

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Here is the only item of Killen alone, he is pictured on a W601 as minor leaguer though (celluloid, not cardboard)<br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/killen.JPG"><br /><br />Jake Stenzel, while he never had a card issued, he did produce a set of pins himself (that should count as something)<br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/stenzeldonlin.JPG"><br />-Rhett<br /><br />

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Buster Clarkson was once deliberately walked by Paige with the bases loaded.<br /><br />Quincy Trouppe is another top quality ballplayer who was in MLB without a non-commemorative U.S. card being issued for him.<br /><br />Fittingly, Willard Brown hit the first HR by a Black American in the Majors on 8/13/47.<br /><br />There are others.<br /><br />Among the others, Buck O'Neil was on the Cubs, but not as a player.

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Why wouldn't non-US cards count? Do you mean non-major league cards? All of those Negro Leaguers have cards, including O'Neil. Of course, none of them have cards that picture them as Major Leaguers. <br /><br />Also, Jackie Robinson was the first black player to hit a HR in the Majors.<br /><br />Willard Brown was the first to hit a HR in the AMERICAN LEAGUE. Ironically, it was an inside-the-park home run. <br /><br />-Ryan

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Brian (misunderestimated)</b><p>While there are team cabinets out there with him, I would add:<br />Joe Start:<br /><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/startjo01.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/startjo01.shtml</a><br />His career which began at the very dawn of organized baseball (he was one of the first professionals and was likely paid under the table during the amatuer era) -- ended in 1886.<br /><br />Also I don't recall there being a card of annother early star, Charley Jones<br />(who was blacklisted for demanding to be paid)<br /><br /><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jonesch01.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jonesch01.shtml</a><br /><br />(I guess he could be in the big Old Judge set, but I don't recall him being included)<br />

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>I don't know, Ryan. It is a trivia question. The why should or shouldn'ts and the interpretation of meaning and intent are best addressed to its author.<br /><br />And yes, I thought that Brown HR stuff was wrong, but it is here in black and white and wrong.

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>What?????!!!

They Never Made It On To "Old Cardboard"
 

Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Did I stutter, stammer, slur or slobber Ryan? What is it that you do not understand? This is a trivia question.<br /><br />It is for fun.<br /><br />People suggest players many of whom are worthy, but may not meet all of the criteria cited. The three which I suggest for consideration do not meet the longevity criteria, since none lasted beyond their first year. There may be other reasons for their exclusion, but in my estimation, they represent top players in their respective positions who do not have a MLB card. And that is my interpretation of what is requested.<br /><br />I may be wrong, but who cares? I do that sometimes. Wats up?