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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Mark Rios</b><p>...needs to die.<br /><br />There seems to be a connection that Bonds<br />has to vintage baseball cards that I fail to see.<br /><br /><br />
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I have had that sentiment shared with me already. I am slow to kill a thread for the sake of killing it. Personal thoughts aside, if folks want to continue to talk about it I don't think I should stop it now, if ever. regards
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>The connection is history.<br /><br />People on this board love baseball and the history connected to it. Bonds is in rare territory and his cheating to get there really pisses some people off.<br /><br />I don't like Bonds attitude but I HATE that he has cheated to get where he is at. If he hadn't juiced and after he retired, I would be happy to say what a great player he was if he "ONLY" had between 500-600 Home Runs, 2,500-2,700 hits and over 500 stolen bases. Along with his defense, those numbers would have put him close to Willie Mays territory.<br /><br />But cheating with steroids cheapens his numbers and, to me, keeps him out of the Hall of Fame. If Pete Rose is on the Restricted List for what he did off of the baseball field, then Bonds should be on the Restricted List for what he did on the field. Also, Bonds should be sued for profiting from his cheating, along with the Giants and Major League baseball.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>deleted becuase after reading Dave's other's posts, I realized he's got issued with Bonds that are worth turning this thread into the monstrosity that the Bonds thread already is.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>Leon doesn't want to kill it because he wants to see how high it will get as far as posts. My thread was removed so this one and the Mantle vs. Mays should be also. It's whatever fits justification for that day I suppose. We should either delete all posts not regarding prewar or leave them on. Don't ride the fence. Just my 2 cents.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>As I stated in the Mantle/Mays thread, if you want to make friends and talk about things with other board members that you care deeply about but have nothing to do with pre-WWII baseball cards, take it somewhere else. It is just not as simple as "If you don't like OT topics, don't read them." They dilute the integrity of the Board. Seriously. <br /><br />The argument that veteran Board members have leeway in this regard is completely ridiculous. It is the veteran Board members that should be most interested in preserving the integrity of the Board. They should simply know better.<br /><br />
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I guess I should explain a little bit about why I do what I do (for the umpteenth -is that a word?) time. First of all this is not a democracy. If anyone thinks I play favorites on the board they are correct. My favorite folks on the board are the ones that participate the most in good pre-wwII vintage baseball card threads. My most favorite folks are the ones that START good threads. It really isn't personal though. So I do play favorites, on the board. Sometimes there are too many off topic threads going and I have to put a little bit of a squelch to it. That usually makes someone unhappy and generally it won't be someone that is one of my favorites, but it could be. I feel my job as the moderator/owner (I guess) is to further the welfare of this board. The welfare, in this case is not having more threads and posts about any darn thing in the world but about the integrity of the site, as previously mentioned. Folks really need to read the rules to see where I am coming from and going. I can't recall EVER deleting or stopping a pre-wwII card thread (could have but don't remember). I do think letting some O/T go is good for the board as it does promote a "family" sentiment but only with regular participants. If you are a lurker, or very infrequent poster, then you shouldn't be posting off topic threads. I guess you could say I speak out of both sides of my mouth, as I was recently accused of, but that's the way it goes. Also, generally speaking, if someone tells me to do something I won't do it. Such as "you need to delete this or that". I do look at it though and if it makes sense then I will step in. For the most part I do try to let stuff go...Thanks to all for not posting off topics the last few days and I think a few would be ok again, only if you have recently started good board related threads though. If anyone has any questions please post in this thread or email me. Thanks to all....
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>I look at it like time in counts for something here. Most of us have done buisness on the honer system and at the least know each other through the board.<br />Look i for one only collect pre war but also enjoy the debate's that take place like the Mantle/Mays thread. Where else can i listen to people who actually saw these guy's play and get all of the different take's .<br /><br />Certainly not the CU boards as most i don't think will deal with all of the BS that occure's over there.<br />So this is it and if 10% are o/t than i say great. Leon i believe strike's the perfect balance and make's it clear that if you participate than you get some leeway.<br /><br />I know other topics come up from time to time but if i'm not interested i don't read it. Really very simple.<br /><br />It's great in and of itself that we can bitch about how it's run. If i owned it i don't know if i could be so casual about all of the complaints.<br /><br />Sorry Leon i was typing when your post came up.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>"Where else can i listen to people who actually saw these guy's play and get all of the different take's."<br /><br />I guess my point is that I don't go to this site to hear about what people thought when they saw Mantle play in 1963. And if that is what you want to talk about, there must be some place else that caters to that interest. If there isn't, feel free to start one. If other people really want to chat about that stuff, then your brand new Mickey Mantle Fan Club/Sey Hey Kids Fansite, will really take off with all of those interested readers and people just dying to post about that stuff.<br /><br />Look, I understand that the subject matters in threads might move OT, like why Cobb was better than Mantle, or some such, turning into a discussion about Mantle within that thread. But I will never understand starting a thread about Barry Bonds, or even a spinoff thread from that thread about Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays, on a board dedicated to pre-WWII baseball cards.<br /><br />Finally, I also understand that this is not a democracy and that Leon is the all-knowing, all-powerful moderator, and that is a bargain that I am happy to live with. But I think it is fair play to come down on all the OT posts that have been cropping up lately, even if Leon is more understanding of some of them. <br /><br />Just think of this -- someone wants to learn more about their grandfather's collection of fine caramel cards, and they do a search on Google and come up with this Board. The first thing they will get to read about is Barry Bonds. To me, that is just sad. <br />
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>If it is Leon's decision than why are all of the comments made ?<br /><br />Seems to me to be a a waste of time. Kind of like telling your boss how to run things after being told over and over that your thoughts mean nothing.<br /><br />And the response regarding the Mantle/May's thread was totally out of context. I believe i said something to the affect of it's refreshing to listen to the older guy's from time to time give there thoughts on players they saw but some of us did not.<br /><br />Not that we need thread after thread about those issue's.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I sort of take issue with the statement of "all knowing, all powerful moderator".....On almost all important decisions I consult with my right hand man and the previous 2 owners of the board. I have definitely changed a decision or two recently, after consultation. Yes, I am where the buck stops but I do have a committee I consult with too......As for off topic posts, the rules and my previous response, state my views.....regards all....<br /><br /><br />edited for grammar
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Paul (T206Collector)<br /><br />OK, this is your 4th (if not 5th) reference to my "Mantle/Mays" thread.<br /><br />And, when you were 1st critical of me "spinning-off" the Bonds thread you<br />said this...."But it seemed pretty remarkable and insensitive to me that a<br />day after we (properly and happily) get a 1952 Topps Mantle thread locked<br /> for being off-topic."<br /><br />Well, do you realize what you are saying....it seems like your emotions have<br />blurred you thinking. Go back to that Thread you are referring to that Leon<br />locked. Its on page 2 (1952 Topps, by someone named Pat)....and READ IT.<br /><br />There is NO mention of MANTLE in it......so can you stop beating up on Leon,<br />and indirectly on me, too. Just get over it. You talk about wasting time and<br />space on this Forum, but haven't you done this with these incessant negative<br />posts ?
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>There are really only three possible ways to govern this kind of forum. Any and all OT allowed, no OT allowed at all, and some kind of compromise.<br /><br />I don't think anyone here has ever seriously advocated for any and all OT allowed, even if it stayed within the generic "Old Baseball" or "Baseball Cards" area. <br /><br />What if there were no OT allowed? First of all, the definition of OT would immediately become a huge issue. Is it the cards or the hobby? Where would the line be drawn? And, most likely and problematic, is that if there were absolutely NO OT allowed it would only be a matter of time before people complained, particularly the regular participants. "I am on that board all the time and answer questions and help people and post scans and use the BST and (etc etc) - I post one thread on a 1948 issue or the NCAA brackets, and it gets deleted. That's BS!!" Undoubtedly there would be exactly this kind of complaint, and rightfully so.<br /><br />So unlimited OT is out, as is no OT at all. That leaves compromise. So which compromise? X number per day, first come first serve? Well that wouldn't work at all. OT only within certain allowable topics? Also unworkable and unsatisfying. Who gets to post OT's, how many, and on what topics? <br /><br />I guess as compromises go, I can't think of much that is more fair, more in keeping with the spirit of the board, more workable, and more elegant than a policy of leeway to regulars. Maybe I'm missing something, but to me this accomplishes all goals - keeps board generally focused, avoids aribitrary restrictions, promotes particpation, and makes room for the occasional goof threads that allow people to be people, and not just card collectors.<br /><br />So Leon - I think you are hitting on all cylinders here, from picking the right approach to executing it very well. <br /><br />After all that, though, I will say this. The leeway-to-regulars is a great idea, but only works to the extent that it is understood and respected. I guess I think and hope that those regulars that can occasionally go OT do so wisely and think it through before starting an OT, and that everyone collectively allow OT threads to die out after a reasonable time. <br /><br />Joann
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...I meant to say, "But it seemed pretty remarkable and insensitive to me that a day after we (properly and happily) get a 1952 Topps thread locked<br />for being off-topic., that we get a discussion of 1950's players." <br /><br />The fact that I mistakenly said Mantle in that sentence does not actually change the value of what I have been saying. <br /><br />But I most certainly have not been "beating up on Leon," who closed the 1952 Topps thread much to my glee. I took issue with the hate e-mail he received in response to that closing, and I wanted everyone to know that he had support on this Board for closing down any and all OT threads that he might decide, after a proper discussion with his closest compatriots, were worthy of closing down.<br /><br />It is now clear to me that my opinion as to what constitutes an impermissible OT thread has no relevance to his decision-making authority. And I am totally happy with that. <br /><br />At the end of the day, it is disappointing to me that you believe that sticking up for an exclusively pre-war forum is "wasting time and<br />space" with "incessant negative posts."<br /> <br />
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>..."I guess I think and hope that those regulars that can occasionally go OT do so wisely and think it through before starting an OT, and that everyone collectively allow OT threads to die out after a reasonable time."<br />
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>What Ted Z. said. I can't believe an o/t thread is such a big deal that someone would actually feel "glee" when it was locked.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>T206collector, sounds like you need to take your own advice. If you don't like what is going on here, then go ahead and start you own message board that is exclusively vintage card talk and nothing else. You'll get a few people to participate, but you'll find that people will lose interest for 2 reason, there won't be much activity there because of the very limited discussion, and you won't get most of the experts to got here since most people, like myself, wouldn't want to waste time duplicating info that we've already passed along here. But if you want is a purely vintage card forum, then go right ahead and start one up. More power to ya and best of luck.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Leon does a great job on the Board, lay off. <br /><br />As a person who uses other Forums and Message Boards to further my education in other collecting venues, there is utter chaos and nonsense and without order, there is truly chaos. <br /><br />Leon's goal is to bring focus on a group that sometimes loses it's focus. We all use the Forum for different reasons and if we all had ambition to go "against the system", we would all start our own Forums and run it the way we want. <br /><br />Imagine if Leon didn't exist? It would be like all of us kids in the house, left for a weekend and it was great at first and then you realize that you need Leon (and the posse) because nobody in the house can cook or wash clothes. Without order, we would still have Adam J. telling everyone that people who collect low grade cards are losers. Has anyone seen the chaos in the CU Board? Flashing avatar's and signature images that take up half the screen. <br /><br />The Bonds thread was an important O/T topic because it challenges what the common goal is of everyone here, the joy of the sport and live with it or ignore it. I was annoyed by some of the comments, but I got over it and moved on. The world is simply too big to find annoyance in the opinions of some and this is after all, still a hobby enjoyed by all...this big gigantic dysfunctional collecting family that is the n54, VBC Forum.<br /><br />DJ<br /><br /><br /><br />
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>You need to start your own forum! In fact, everyone should start their own fora. And then everything will always be on topic.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I'm not the one with an issue as to how this forum is run. You are the one that has issues. Leon and I may butt heads once in awhile, but I have no real issue with how he runs the board, so why would I want to go start my own forum? If I am gonna start a forum, it's going to be about egalatarian sectarianism among protoplasmic lifeforms in Mr Mint's navel.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Wow, all over o/t's. <br /><br />With no control we have......the CU boards. Do we really want that ?<br /><br />Also, uhhhh i agree with Jay. There said it. That wasn't so bad.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Even I admit that OT threads about Mr. Mint always make me chuckle.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Info about dealers, auctioneers, etc. is part and parcel of the hobby of vintage card collecting.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...but you would agree that the Mr. Mint posts are a little different than your typical, "How are XYZ's prices/grading/etc."
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Jay has been sounding pretty reasonable as of late, hasn't he?
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I felt "glee" in the sense that I am noting that that OT thread was locked and expressing that I supported that decision.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>takes your pick <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />glee<br /> n 1: great merriment [syn: hilarity, mirth, mirthfulness, gleefulness]<br /> 2: malicious satisfaction [syn: gloat, gloating]<br />
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...mirth. Nothing malicious about wanting fewer OT posts.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>You guys are going to give me a complex if you all start agreeing with me.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Andrew Parks</b><p>umpteenth<br /><br />adj : last in an indefinitely numerous series [syn: umteenth, umptieth]<br /><br />ump·teen <br />adj. Informal <br />Relatively large but unspecified in number: umpteen reasons; umpteen guests. <br /><br /><br />[Slang ump(ty), dash in Morse code (of imitative origin) + -teen(as in thirteen).]<br /><br />umpteenth adj.<br /><br /><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=umpteenth" target="_new" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=umpteenth</a" target="_new">http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=umpteenth</a</a>><br /><br /><br /><br />thanks Andrew <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> (leon)
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Leon: The Bonds Thread....and O/T posts
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Yeah, what Jay's been saying... I agree...
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