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Posted By: <b>Don J.</b><p><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86837&item=5188965 228&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86837&item=5188965 228&rd=1</a><br /><br /><br />Haven't seen a real one in a while <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>ted</b><p>Bid...i dare ya too...<br /><br />Hehe <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />BlackSox

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Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>Private auction<br /><br />+<br /><br />Zero feedback seller<br /><br />+<br /><br />High profile type card in an ASA holder<br /><br />= <br /><br />Run as far as you can, and don't look back. That being said, I'd be lying if I were to say I wasn't intrigued a bit myself (but then common sense kicks in).

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>in his discription he says "I have spoken to SGC and was advised that it would be great risk to try and open and regrade."

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Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Agree with all the previous posts, proceed with caution.<br />But.....<br /><br />Where does the seller come up with this scan?<br /><br />Has anyone ever seen this card in a previous auction?

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Posted By: <b>Ted</b><p>Not that this helps ... but it's not a scan, you can clearly see the guy taking the picture...<br /><br />BlackSoxFan

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>of course at one time it was Alan Hager's card . What a grand way of a start to your feedback with something like this. <br /><br />The only fat chance would be to post date a check for... oh...I'd say 2 weeks and this person would overnight it. I hope that you would have a personal code for your checking as well.<br /><br />Odds that he is a standup guy are about 4983222,8374322222,837444332,8844333.00 to 1.<br /><br />Good luck Major !

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Posted By: <b>John Spencer</b><p>There is just the smallest of chances that this card could be legit. I know Hager made several trips to London, where I now live, along with his sidekick, David Festberg. They were in hot pursuit of any T215's that might be found. From what I understand, they found a few baseball and many other non-baseball. There was a rumor that the backs of some non-BB Pirates were grafted on to Red Cross or T213's, but who knows. Obviously, caveat emptor, but it just might worth a toss of the dice.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Looks like someone rolled the dice after all. Curious to see if his perfect feedback is ruined or not. <br /><br />The card could be real but the Barbie wheel chair doll...well I'm not buying it for a second!<img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/77.gif"><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Baxter</b><p>When was the last time one of these babies was in a major auction? Does anyone know if an example has ever come up for sale on Ebay?

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Posted By: <b>Darren J Duet MD</b><p>Dan,<br />I think your overestimating his odds.

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Posted By: <b>Glen V</b><p>I communicated with the seller and am pretty sure he is legit. Also, he agreed to use an Escrow service, so you could get the card before he got money. Supposedly a few people came out to see the card and they were convinced too. When Edward Wharton Tigar died, Hager acquired his T215 Pirate cards. The seller bought this card around that time. I don't doubt that he has the T215 and its real. The only question is if Hager altered the card before putting it in the holder. And who won it (wasn't me).

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I bought a Doolan Pirates T215 from a major auction a few years back (could get the exact date, but I would have to go through a TON of auction catalogs - believe it was Oser or Edwards).<br /><br />Anyway, I sold it on eBay a year or so later to a board member.

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br />Hi Glen,<br /> I had contact with the seller and also believe him to be legit. He even offered to drive 45 Min to meet me if necessary, but I was unable to arrange my schedule this week so I was unable to view the card. Is it a true 9? Probably not, but it's still appears to be a very nice example of a tough issue. Maybe Scottie B bought it to go along with his sharp T215????<br /><br /> Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>i think the card is real, but i was not certain the seller had it in his possession and as i recall he amended the auction to state he was shoelessjoe, who is a known ebay seller, why sell a super card with 0 feedback if you were legit, time will tell. BUT, maybe the stock just went up on mine.<br /><br />scott

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Not sure about that Joe Yanello changed the name of his company from Shoeless Joes to Joe's Vintage Cards recently. I'm going to contact him and see if this is his auction.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Not that it can't happen but did anyone notice the underbidder was about $1000 and it went for $6000....now that's sort of strange....

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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p>$6,000 was the reserve. That's why the bidding wasn't incremental.<br /><br />Edited to add: All it takes is one person . . .<br /><br />DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I did remember that ....and still thought it a little strange. Generally the winning bidder of a lot won't be bidding 6x the underbidder. But like you said it only takes 1 on ebay. I wonder if something could have been fishy though...and I know people say "don't always think somethings wrong" but still.....1k to 6k....private auction....Hagar card....the only thing worse would have been if Broadway was selling it...later

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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p>A privata auction immediately says "STAY AWAY!!" to me. Plus as you and others have said, the provenance of the card is, shall we say, less than optimal based upon the holder. The SGC story sounds fishy too. I believe it went more along the lines of "this card is altered and we will not grade it".<br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>Gary Nuchereno</b><p>It was Me I bought the T215 despite all the red flags which the board picked up on. The only one not mentioned was God Bless You which some scammers use so that you think thay are religious(He's religious so he won't rip me off!)On the other hand I talked to the seller on the phone and as several board members acknowledged he was willing to do whatever I wanted him to do(meet me at the airport) which I didnt do.Most scammers don't put reserves(I think) and most scammers wont accept paypal. I used paypal(on my master card) because if this was a phantom card I thought master card might stick up for me(I know paypal and ebay won't). I had one experience and master card won. Has anyone ever had any experience with Master card vs Ebay and paypal? I waited until today because the seller agreed to overnight the card and it is in my left hand as I type with my right.If it was a scam and I lost my 6k I didnt want everyone to know what a dumb *** I was. The card measures ok 11/2 by <br />2 5/8 but is still in the asa holder. Will PSA or SGC crossover from an asa holder as I prefer not to take it out myself? I have many PSA 8 vintage cards and this is as nice as any of them. I measured it in the holder so if it is minutely trimmed I wouldnt be able to pick it up. I bid as high as I did(I actually bid over 7k so he didnt shill me) because I thought it was worth it.I have a history of overpaying for cards,so time will tell. But it must be scarce if Scott only has one! I will post a picture if someone tells me how to do it.By the way I am a newbie to this board but I am a long time vintage collector but short time computer user. Gary Nuchereno

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Posted By: <b>Peter Thomas</b><p>Break it out yourself. Hager's holders are the easiest to open and the grading company will not have the stigma of ASA to deal with. I had about 20 of the holders bought from the man himself. Mastro broke out 10 for an auction lot 5 years ago and the all graded - some a little lower. All of the ones I kept (e90-2, e90-3, e104, & t216's) also graded most at lower grades, but 1 at a grade higher. If the card looks good in your hand you may have struck paydirt - but get the card out of its holder before grading

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Posted By: <b>Gary Nuchereno</b><p>Thanks peter for the info.I will probably break it out since you said it was relatively easy, I must say it is the first asa card I have ever owned. Gary

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>&lt;&lt;I have spoken to SGC and was advised that it would be great risk to try and open and regrade.&gt;&gt;<br />

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Posted By: <b>Gary Nuchereno</b><p>Scott I didnt want to hear that! Did SGC see the card or is it just past experience with graded cards by asa in general. I remember that there were a lot of lawsuits flying around but I wasn't aware that Hager was being accused of altering cards. I remember that the editor(Purdy)of Vintage & Classic Baseball collectors and Hagar went at it issue after issue or so it seemed. The card measures up ok and under 10 power glass looks ok, dot pattern normal. I hope you are wrong of course but the possibility is certainly there for a problem.

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Posted By: <b>Glen V</b><p>I asked about re-grading - seller's response: "I understand the concerns about ASA. [...] when I contacted SGC about them removing and regrading this item their response was that they do not remove when a card is valued more than $500.00." He went on to say he was worried about damaging the card trying to remove it, so he'd leave it up to the buyer. I still think this card is probably good, but wouldn't touch anything else in an ASA holder.

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>I'm glad that Gary received the card. I checked with Joe Yanello (Shoeless Joe's) and he was not the seller nor has he ever owned the card, so clearly something was not on the up and up with the seller.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I talked to the seller via phone for a long time. He had a buyer stopping by last weekend before the auction ended. I told him if that didn't work out, to call me back Tuesday and I will fly down to look at it and possibly buy with cash. I never heard back from him. I would purchase this card in person if I were you. If he already sold it and left the auction up, well you could be in trouble. He seemed like a straight Joe, though I also find the SGC response suspect at best. Why have crossovers if you won't break open slabs? Anyway, it is a super card and could turn out great for you, just be as safe as possible while purchasing it. Dan.

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Posted By: <b>macebayacct@hotmail.com</b><p>SGC has new submission guidelines. According to their website, they no longer offer the crossover service for cards worth more than $500. I was dsappointed too.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p><a href="http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=shoelessjoes" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=shoelessjoes</a>. Different people.