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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Frank Rose</b><p>Can someone definitively date the decade for this pinback? I strongly believe it is the 1920s based on Bears programs.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1222359211.JPG">
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Paul Muchinsky</b><p>Based on the construction of the pinback, I would be more inclined to guess 1930s or 1940s, but I am not sure.
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>There is a famous 1945 WS Cubs Pinback with a strikingly similar image. I will try to find a picture to post...
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Found it... Same white faces, same dancing legs on Bears. This dates the image (at least) to 1945.<br /><br />Hope this helps...<br /><br /><img src="http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff178/perezfan/Pins003.jpg">
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Frank Rose</b><p>The Bears are identical in both pins, minus the bats and the footballs of course. I guess this pinback isn't as old as I thought. Thanks for sharing.<br><br>Frank Rose<br />Moderator<br />Vintage Football Collectors Message Board<br />www.gridirongreats.net<br />Online Orders: www.helmethut.com <br />(Click Enter Store, Gridiron Greats Magazine Tab)<br />
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Paul Muchinsky</b><p>Mark,<br /><br />Your basis for dating the Bears pin (from a similar baseball design from the 1945 Cubs) raises an interesting "chicken and egg" problem. Perhaps the Bears adapted the dancing bears image from the Cubs, but it could work in reverse. I have faced this similar problem in dating pins from the Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians, as both used the identical image of the chief's head (facing right, without the headress). The Redskins moved from Boston in the 1930s, so the range of possible dates does not go as far back as the 1920s for them. But the question still remains of who borrowed what from whom when.<br /><br />It has been my experience that the image on the pinback is often most diagnostic of the date of issue. But sometimes it can be the graphics. The New York Giants played in the 1936, 1937, 1951, and 1954 World Series. The classic 1.25" crossed bats design pin was issued proclaiming "New York Giants National League Champions". For this particular design (crossed bats), I cannot find any distinction that would reveal a within-decade difference (1936 vs. 1937, and 1951 vs. 1954). But I did find a difference in the graphics across decades. Similar to the dated 1945 Cubs pin, the crossed bats pins of the 1950s used a relatively plain and simple font (although the Cubs pin is notable by the smoothness and grace of the font). However, the 1936/37 crossed bats pin is characterized by a font that has serifs and "feet" to the shape of its letters. The font looks very similar to what was used on the Bears pin. Does this prove the Bears pin is older than the 1940s? Not at all. I think all a reasonable person can conclude is that there are stylistic differences associated with similar items issued over time. However, some pin makers would re-issue the same design, making the process of exact dating impossible. Also pin vendors preferred undated items, as they could be sold without buyer hesitation that the item was "outdated". Thus the dated Cubs pin is truly special.<br /><br />If you saw the telecast of the final game at Yankee Stadium you noticed a stylistic difference in uniforms. Berra and Ford wore uniforms from their respective playing era--the pinstipes were wider than in the uniform of today. Good records exist on stylistic differences in MLB uniforms over time. Unfortunately they don't exist for pinbacks.<br /><br />
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Great point, Paul... I know teams often carried on these designs and images for many years. Same holds true for baseball pennants. The Yankees must have used the same portrait of Uncle Sam for over a decade. I have seen dated Yankee Pennants of identical design ranging from the early '50s to early '60s.<br /><br />Common sense must come into play at some point as well. I always thought those dancing bears looked earlier (and more crude) than circa 1945. I bet that the image was around well before that.<br /><br />So Frank... the possibility of your Bears pinback being older than mid-forties certainly exists. I would think that late thirties would be about the earliest possibility, but more like early forties (similar to what Paul stated above). Just an educated guess, and perhaps others can shed more light.<br />
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Hi Paul,<br /><br />I was just wondering if you still planned on purchasing the 4 photo pennants that you agreed to purchase from me back on Sept. 16th? All of my emails have gone unanswered. I am assuming since I haven't received payment or heard anything from you that you no longer want them. Please confirm one way or the other. Thanks.<br /><br />
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Bears Pinback Question
Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Hi Paul,<br /><br />Thanks for the email confirming you still want the 4 photo pennants. I will get them boxed up and ship them out after I receive payment. I know you are a perfect buyer and appreciate it. Thanks again!<br /><br />Dan
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