1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>newguy76</b><p>Hello all... I was wondering about something I recently purchased on EBay. I won a 1917 Collins-McCarty E135 Babe Ruth Card. As you can see it's pretty beat up... but it's a dream come true for me to add a Babe Ruth card to my collection. I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little more about the series and if it's indeed geniune? I did a lot of research on the card before deciding to bid, and I hope I made the right choice<BR><BR><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5110397913&ssPageName= ADME:B:BN:US:1" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5110397913&ssPageName= ADME:B:BN:US:1</a><BR><BR>Thanks for listening and if anyone out there can help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.<BR><BR>

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>I don't mean to ruffle any feathers here, but it doesnt look promising to me. Consider the following exerpt from the auction description:<BR><BR><i>"I don't know anything about these cards, as I have never owned any of these before. I took it to a local dealer and he told me what it was. I had never seen one of these before. Therefore, I cannot make any guarantees about this card. All I know is that it was included in this estate collection. "</i><BR><BR>You should never buy a card, especially a high dollar card like this Ruth, from a seller that doesnt guarantee their merchandise. If they won't stand behind it, then it's probably no good. The estate sale line is also a standard for dishonest sellers peddling fakes. <BR><BR>I'd take a close look at this before making your next big purchase: <a href="http://www.cycleback.com/beginnerstips.html" target=_new>http://www.cycleback.com/beginnerstips.html</a><BR><BR>And next time, consult someone who knows BEFORE bidding!<BR>

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>I will second what Ben said. It's fake. <BR><BR>The seller was talking in the language ebayese. In ebayese, "estate sale" means "fake" in English.<BR><BR>Notice how that card got awefully dirty and creased but those corners managed to stay pretty sharp. Also, follow the ridge of the crease on the back of the card starting from the top of the card. Notice the how it buldges up slightly ? In my opinion, real E135 cards aren't thick enough to cause that kind of effect.<BR><BR>If you haven't paid for the card yet - DON'T.<BR><BR>

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Collins McCarthy cards are sepia in color and tend to exhibit minute cracking in the surface of the front on lower condition cards. Does this card exhibit those characteristics?

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Excerpt from the item description: <BR><BR>"Please, no off-line offers on the card. It is not fair to individuals that follow the proper bidding process. That's what makes this whole EBAY process fun!"<BR><BR>Ask the seller if receiving a reprint card is supposed to be part of the fun ebay process.<BR><BR><BR>

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The other clue that this card may not be kosher is the price you got it for. Even in that rough of shape, it should pull something closer to $1k. If you haven't paid for it yet, I would hold off and get some sort of assurance as to authenticity from the seller. He can't force you honor the bid since his auction listing violated eBay rules pertaining to authenticity of the item. Getting him to send it to SGC or some other service would be the best thing.<BR><BR>Jay

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>newguy76</b><p>I haven't paid for the card yet. It looks to me like it is does display some cracking though. Click Enlarge Photo on the original link.<BR><BR>I read the description and was quite concerned, but felt like it was worth the risk of negative feedback since the auction was ending so soon. I have a perfect score so far, so it was worth a gamble for me.<BR><BR>Thank you all for the help. I'm still 50-50 on it. But I'd be willing to risk negative feedback if it saves me in the process.<BR><BR>This seller has some really good feedback and also sold a Willie Mays Rookie Bowman from this supposed collection.<BR><BR><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73435&item=5109722 268" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73435&item=5109722 268</a><BR><BR>2 Final Questions:<BR><BR>Has anyone else come across a fraud E135 with that kind of drastic off-centering? I thought most reprints would be a bit more centered. The corners do worry me.<BR><BR>And finally...Do reputable dealers often turn sour?

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>That particular type of "bulging" crease is what I consider a dead give-away of a fake: it occurs when the OAGSB (over-anxious greedy scammer bastard) starts "aging" the card before the glue has dried, or maybe it for some other reason, but in any case you don't see that type of crease on thin-stock cards.

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>jamie</b><p>i reviewed some of his other auctions and among them are 3 of the most reprinted modern cards (and multiple copies)- WAYNE GRETZKY 1978-79 O-PEE-CHEE Rookie Card, MARIO LEMIEUX 1985 O-Pee-Chee Rookie Card, and the JORDAN STAR CARDS.<BR><BR>The print defects he mentions on the Lemieux card are only found in the reprinted version- I know, I have a copy. <BR><BR>In the Mantle card he sold, he does a comparison to a modern legitimate Bowman reprint. That doesn't really wash when you compare with counterfeits which are much closer to the original. <BR><BR>I would really stay away from this at all costs.

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It looks like artificial aging to me. I would tell the seller that it is most likely a fake and you don't want it. Tell him you will pay his ebay fees and then run the other way. Not worth the chance.....It should be about a $1.00 card. Good luck and let us know how it turns out......

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>Jamie</b><p>and one of his negatives is for selling a fake Jordan rookie

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I have NEVER seen a card that was so damaged ... yet had SQUARE corners!!!<BR><BR>Just can't see that happening.

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>newguy76</b><p>Thank you all so much. I'm glad I found this site before purchasing. I'm gonna tell him to go screw himself and withdraw my bid. I'm not paying him a dime. I'll let you know how it all turns out.<BR><BR>-Dave

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>Technically, it is against eBay's rules for a seller to not specifically state what an item is, and the seller is not allowed to say things like "cannot authenticate" or "no guarantee of authenticity." eBay states that if you don't know what an item is, don't sell it. The auction was illegitimate in the first place, and the winner isn't required to pay a penny.

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The thing that always cracks me up about these "estate finds" is that if someone really had amassed a legitimante collection of cards like this, the last place he would be selling them is in an estate sale. Even if he died, every serious collector on this level has a stipulation in their will as to how the cards to best disposed of. And they would know thta an estate sale would not bring top dollar for these cards.<BR><BR>Jay

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>these scammers have seen it work on ebay many times over, with no negative repercussions, so why not try it? These aren't people with morals you can appeal to - they are simply thieves.<BR><BR>They deserve to be squashed like mosquitoes, but unfortunately they use the internet to appear more like what in Georgia we call "no-see-ums" - they bite you and disappear!

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>newguy76</b><p>Just wanted to thank you guys one last time. I think deep down in my head I knew it was too good to be true. You guys really know your stuff around here and helped me save quite a bit. I hope to come back one day and show off a crisp, original one. Until then, thanks so much and keep up the good work. You guys rock.<BR><BR>-Dave

1917 Collins-McCarty Ruth
 

Posted By: <b>Pcelli60</b><p>I wish i knew you guys a few years back!