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-   -   More Tuesday Trivia: LHP best seasons by WAR (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=351730)

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 10:49 AM

More Tuesday Trivia: LHP best seasons by WAR
 
Who had the 10 all-time best single seasons by left-handed pitchers according to BRef WAR?

I'm going by the version of WAR that doesn't consider their hitting.

(Try to guess, rather than looking it up, of course.)

cgjackson222 07-30-2024 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry (Post 2451133)
Who had the 10 all-time best single seasons by left-handed pitchers according to BRef WAR?

Let's get the obvious ones out of the way first--Steve "Lefty" Carlton, Lefty Grove, and Sandy Koufax.

jayshum 07-30-2024 10:56 AM

Clayton Kershaw?

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgjackson222 (Post 2451134)
Let's get the obvious ones out of the way first--Steve "Lefty" Carlton, Lefty Grove, and Sandy Koufax.

OK, great start.

Carlton is #3 (1972)
Grove is #8 (1936)

Koufax, believe it or not, is just outside the top ten: his best season (1963) is tied for #12.

That's two down, eight to go...

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum (Post 2451135)
Clayton Kershaw?

Good guess but Kershaw does not make the list..

I guess I might as well give a hint here: Carlton's season is the most recent of the top ten.

cgjackson222 07-30-2024 11:14 AM

Spahn?

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgjackson222 (Post 2451140)
Spahn?

Another good guess but Spahn doesn't make it either. His best season (1947) is tied for #29 on the list.

cgjackson222 07-30-2024 11:37 AM

Last guess for now is Wilbur Wood, who had some monster years with the White Sox.

jayshum 07-30-2024 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry (Post 2451138)
Good guess but Kershaw does not make the list..

I guess I might as well give a hint here: Carlton's season is the most recent of the top ten.

I guess that's not surprising. Because of the huge number of innings they used to pitch, most of the really high WAR seasons for pitchers are pre-1900.

nolemmings 07-30-2024 11:46 AM

Hal Newhouser. Carl Hubbell must be on there somewhere too.

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgjackson222 (Post 2451147)
Last guess for now is Wilbur Wood, who had some monster years with the White Sox.

Yes!

Wilbur Wood is #4 (1971). He had a 1.91 ERA with 22 complete games that year.

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings (Post 2451149)
Hal Newhouser. Carl Hubbell must be on there somewhere too.

Newhouser is right! His 1945 MVP season is tied for #6 on the list.

Hubbell's highest rated season (1936) comes in at #24.


There are six seasons remaining...

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum (Post 2451148)
I guess that's not surprising. Because of the huge number of innings they used to pitch, most of the really high WAR seasons for pitchers are pre-1900.

This leads me to another hint:

Five of the remaining six seasons on the list were in the 19th century. The other one happened in the 20th century and this person is a HOFer...

Peter_Spaeth 07-30-2024 01:08 PM

Plank?

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2451177)
Plank?

Another good guess but no.

nolemmings 07-30-2024 01:42 PM

RJ

EDITED TO ADD: The Big Unit, if I was unclear

stlcardsfan 07-30-2024 01:45 PM

Ron Guidry

stlcardsfan 07-30-2024 01:46 PM

Herb Score

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings (Post 2451187)
RJ

EDITED TO ADD: The Big Unit, if I was unclear

Johnson's 2002 season is tied with Koufax at #12. (Highest by a lefty since Carlton in '72.)

BobbyStrawberry 07-30-2024 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan (Post 2451188)
Ron Guidry

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan (Post 2451189)
Herb Score

Also solid guesses (they do appear a bit further down the list) but no.

howard38 07-30-2024 05:23 PM

Rube Waddell?

bradmar48 07-30-2024 07:44 PM

Whitey Ford

judsonhamlin 07-31-2024 05:21 AM

Going very old-time, but Matt Kilroy for the old Orioles had a couple of great years

BobbyStrawberry 07-31-2024 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard38 (Post 2451252)
Rube Waddell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin (Post 2451316)
Going very old-time, but Matt Kilroy for the old Orioles had a couple of great years

Both correct!

Waddell's 1904 season is tied for #6 on the list.

Matt Kilroy's 1887 season is #9 all-time.

We're now missing only #1, #2, #5 and #10.

Another hint: Two of the remaining players appear in the Old Judge (N172) set.

Peter_Spaeth 07-31-2024 11:11 AM

Thinking through the 19th century pitchers they're all righties I believe -- Keefe Nichols Clarkson Radbourn Galvin Welch Rusie McCormick Bond. No clue.

judsonhamlin 08-01-2024 08:54 AM

With this clue, I think Toad Ramsey from Louisville had one really good season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry (Post 2451369)
Both correct!

Waddell's 1904 season is tied for #6 on the list.

Matt Kilroy's 1887 season is #9 all-time.

We're now missing only #1, #2, #5 and #10.

Another hint: Two of the remaining players appear in the Old Judge (N172) set.


BobbyStrawberry 08-01-2024 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin (Post 2451517)
With this clue, I think Toad Ramsey from Louisville had one really good season.

Yes!

Ramsey's 1886 season is #2 on the list. He pitched 66 complete games that year (tied with Matt Kilroy for most all-time in a season by a lefty) and had a 2.45 ERA.

We're now missing only #1, #5 and #10.

Econteachert205 08-05-2024 10:53 AM

Bobby schantz?

Touch'EmAll 08-05-2024 11:04 AM

Ruth had a couple top notch seasons with Boston.

Cliff Bowman 08-05-2024 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econteachert205 (Post 2452281)
Bobby schantz?

The remaining 20th Century left-handed pitcher is in the Hall Of Fame.

BobbyStrawberry 08-05-2024 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econteachert205 (Post 2452281)
Bobby schantz?

It is not Shantz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll (Post 2452284)
Ruth had a couple top notch seasons with Boston.

Ruth would make the list if using overall WAR (including batting) but this one uses the pitching-only version, so Ruth doesn't make the cut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 2452305)
The remaining 20th Century left-handed pitcher is in the Hall Of Fame.

The HOFer that took awhile to guess was Waddell - the remaining pitchers are non-HOFers.

So, we're still looking for the #1, #5, and #10 seasons.

A couple more hints:

-Seasons #1 and #10 were accomplished by the same pitcher in consecutive seasons for an American Association team.

-#5 was accomplished later when there was only one major league, prior to the formation of the American League. It happened in a year when offense went way up due to a change in pitching distance.

clydepepper 08-05-2024 06:09 PM

I'm ashamed that I don't have any idea who they are...as an ole' portsider my own self - I have always had a fascination with LHPs, but, I've gotten rusty...had forgotten Toad Ramsey altogether.

Lee Richmond, author of the very first Perfecto- he, I remember.

Seems like Ted Brittlestein (and I'm sure that's spelled incorrectly) had a big year way back...



anxious to see the answer.

My sole source for such information is BBR, and I just 'cheated' and could not find BRef WAR listed...you have my permission to call me stupid.
.

BobbyStrawberry 08-06-2024 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper (Post 2452358)
I'm ashamed that I don't have any idea who they are...as an ole' portsider my own self - I have always had a fascination with LHPs, but, I've gotten rusty...had forgotten Toad Ramsey altogether.

Lee Richmond, author of the very first Perfecto- he, I remember.

Seems like Ted Brittlestein (and I'm sure that's spelled incorrectly) had a big year way back...
.

Lee Richmond had one incredible season in 1880 but it's further down the list.

Your second guess is close enough that the judges will give to you: :) Ted Breitenstein's 1893 season with the St. Louis Browns is #5 on the list. League-wide ERA was 4.66 that year but Breitenstein put a 3.18 over nearly 400 innings.

He didn't make it into the Mayo Cut Plug 1895 set and he was too late for the Old Judge set. I'm not even sure there are any cards of him - anybody seen one?

This leaves just one more name, who has #1 and #10 on the list...

judsonhamlin 08-06-2024 06:23 PM

Gotta admit I looked through the Old Judge book to figure it out but would’ve sworn the answer was Lady Baldwin, who must still come top 15

clydepepper 08-06-2024 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry (Post 2452448)
Lee Richmond had one incredible season in 1880 but it's further down the list.

Your second guess is close enough that the judges will give to you: :) Ted Breitenstein's 1893 season with the St. Louis Browns is #5 on the list. League-wide ERA was 4.66 that year but Breitenstein put a 3.18 over nearly 400 innings.

He didn't make it into the Mayo Cut Plug 1895 set and he was too late for the Old Judge set. I'm not even sure there are any cards of him - anybody seen one?

I am pretty sure there was a T206 of Breitenstein.


This leaves just one more name, who has #1 and #10 on the list...

I know the answer, but since I believe I used 'help' in my research and then just made a stab at it...I will stay silent and allow a more legit 'guesser' to step up.

BobbyStrawberry 08-07-2024 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin (Post 2452506)
Gotta admit I looked through the Old Judge book to figure it out but would’ve sworn the answer was Lady Baldwin, who must still come top 15

I'm glad you mentioned Baldwin - he has the #11 season on the list (just barely below #10).

BobbyStrawberry 08-07-2024 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper (Post 2452526)
I am pretty sure there was a T206 of Breitenstein.

Southern league! Very cool.

clydepepper 08-08-2024 04:35 PM

Spoiler Alert: Here's the Answer:
 
Ed Morris





.

BobbyStrawberry 08-09-2024 04:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper (Post 2452937)
Ed Morris

Ed Morris is indeed #1 (and #10.) In 1885 he pitched 581 innings with a 2.35 ERA for the Alleghenys (Pittsburgh). He started 63 games, finished all of them and went 39-24. In 1886 he won 41 games in 63 starts with an ERA of 2.45 over 555.1 innings.

Here is the top ten in card form:


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