BST Live Auctions Section - Suggestions
 

Ok, so we have had some time to analyze the Live Auction BST section a little bit, in the other thread. It's time to talk about change.

There are several nice auctions going on right now. It looks like they will all do fine. That said, I don't like the newer stuff (anything) mixed with the good stuff. That has to change.




Live Auctions 1945 & Earlier Baseball Cards

Rules-

1. Auctions can start at any time.

2. Auctions end Monday at 8pm CST, a bid at 8:01pm CST is not good.
2b. A tie goes to the first bid.

3. Starting bid $5.

4. Minimum $1.00 bid increments.

5. (3) Auction Limit Per Member Each Week

6. Threads will be locked soon after the auctions are over.

7. Sellers can bump (move to the top by posting) 1 time during auction.





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I love the $1 starting bid and believe it would cure most of the current problems.

Maybe have it so all auctions end twice a week. One that ends on Wednesday and one on Sunday. Sellers can pick their own ending time on those 2 days. One day is modern and one is older items. Maybe split them at 1960 or whatever people want.

The ending date and time must be displayed in the title.

I haven't looked at the auction section in a couple of years. Your suggestions or something similar would regain my attention.

agree with leon and ben as long as there is no junk 90s era stuff..it just never sells and takes up space ,,so its going to be 1950 and back correct ??thx guys

I would suggest a later cutoff, 1970 perhaps. I wouldn't mind seeing some Mantles up for auction.

I personally would hate to see the modern stuff eliminated. I don't sell a lot but I have sold several modern cards/items over the years. I usually start them with no minimum starting bid and they have all sold well.

I believe we have the buyers on Net54 for modern if they are started at auction prices instead of BIN prices.

While I said I didn't really want new sections, I don't think 1 more would be that bad Live Auctions, one for pre-1950 and one for post-1950

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I think those are all great 1-3 bullet points . I do not think we need to eliminate modern or junk wax era all together. Personally, think we need 2 auction sections.

I personally think maybe Pre-1969 & the other 1970-Modern section

1+ exactly my thought.

I like this, Leon. The only thing I'm not fully convinced about is the idea that everything should end at the same time each week. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the reasoning for that particular suggestion.

Thanks, Matthew

End times
 

Having a set end time is a bad idea, in my opinion. I can’t remember who it was, but a member was auctioning a nice T206 and left a lot of money on the table because somebody placed a bid for a dollar higher, at the last second. I’m sure the underbidder would have ponied up another buck for it, but didn’t get the chance. Since you can’t set a max bid in the BST format, sniping will hurt sellers of nice, vintage cards. You can see how I handle it if you look at the auction I posted today, if you want to take a look. I would like to see something like that. PMing a max bid is a poor second option, but doable.

Cheers,
Geno

Would also love to see a minimum value (or estimated final sale amount) maybe...I go to the auction site once every few weeks but see too much junk that doesn't sell at all or for just a few bucks....and this is coming from a guy that doesn't own a card earlier than the 50's. There are 2-3 sellers in particular listing this same stuff in both auctions and BST...it really clogs up the pages IMO.

i.e., I don't mind seeing a PSAX Rickey Henderson (or the like) RC....but it gets annoying seeing "10 mixed 1980's-1990's (you name the sport) HOF lot" where I would have these cards in a $.25 box or in lots for a few cents each...or even worse...a one mid's 90's insert worth $10 that usually doesn't sell on eBay for $1 w/free shipping.

vent over......

I'd be fine with the $1 start, and a set common ending time section.

The cutoffs will be a bit of a problem for me. I have a bunch of "stuff" cards, memorabilia... Stuff. A lot of it is cheap stuff, or newish. The cards I could just price a lot and put in BST, but the non- card things I have no idea how to price them. Like a batch of snapshots I'm planning on listing, look professionally done, maybe mid 1980's? I don't recall exactly where I got them or why...

I also collect some strange 90's stuff, and would probably bid on some smaller batches or more interesting things. Banning that altogether is a bit snobby.


NOW, what I'd really love to see is the post 2000 stuff given its own BST. That way I can look for 80's and 90's things without the multitude of chromeplateddiecutsigneduniformhotdogwrapper whatevers for $1000... That can be cool stuff, but it deserves it's own place.

PS. I sort of liked FB, etc having for sale posts in the section, the "everything else" section sort of buries it.

Your way of doing it is very reasonable and fair to bidders and sellers. I’m a fan.

I like the auction extension idea but I think it might need to be shorter than 10 minutes? On a $1 increment you could go on for quite a while, maybe...I dunno, but I do like this idea. Maybe extended bidding starts at 9pm cst?

I am revising the top as we go....

- Only bump your auction once, the morning of the day it ends.
- No need to respond with "Sold" or "Closed" just edit the original post.

+1
Maybe lock all auctions when they end so they can't be bumped to the top.

Just a thought, would the $1 start discourage higher value auctions in that someone risks starting too low so there's not enough bids to get it up to a reasonable value? Thereby you'll see more lower value items get auctioned.

After the last thread about the BST auctions, there were several nice offerings put on the block in that section. It was nice to see some "fun" vintage material being made available.

I'll check the auctions more often if there continues to be vintage material being put on the block.

Lower value is a relative term. The risk of a nice raw T206 or T205, valued at 50-100 dollars, to go very cheap, probably isn't going to happen over there. There are just too many flippers, collectors and dealers here. At some point I am sure I have fit all of those descriptions, though I feel I am a collector first. That said, if I see a good deal over there I will buy it. :)
Once this gets settled I will throw a few items up for 100+ dollars each....We'll see. I don't care if big items are auctioned there, that is what AH's are for.. This is supposed to mainly be fun....
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• Having everything starting at a buck or whatever shouldn't be the case. You should allow the auctioneers to decide the pricing for themselves. The same weekly starting/ending time? I like that a lot.

• If the $1 (or was it 99 cents?) auctions do become the rule, then perhaps hidden reserves should be allowed if auctioneers want them for self-protection. Start the auction at $1, but PM Leon with your hidden reserve amount (I know, he doesn't want MORE PMs). That way, if the reserve is met, no problem. If it falls short, then you have proof of what the pre-auction-determined reserve was.

• The 1950 cutoff is awful, IMHO. The many people here who collect Topps-era cards (1950s - 1970s) should not be grouped in with all of the modern stuff. The most effective way to balance things would be to have three categories: pre-war, post-war Topps-era, and modern/everything else.

I would suggest a Sunday night end and a Wednesday night end, that way things don't hang around for a week.

I am unsure about 2 closings but made some tweaks to the few proposed rules in the first post. I don't want to get too deep into rules, because then they need to be enforced. And I don't think I want another section, in addition to the 2 being suggested in the first post...but everything is still on the table. It could be fun over there if done right. But I am not going to manage it a lot or it won't be there :)...
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Could always try one and if you feel the need can always add another later.

Suggestion for auction categories:

This is a pre-war site, so anything through 1945
1980 was the end of the Topps monopoly. (1946 to 1980)
1981!was the start of an entirely different era. (1981 to present)

Well...even though they inititally do, the extended bidding would make everything drag out.

Sub-Section 1 Live Auctions Pre-1980

Sub-Section 2 Live Auctions 1980- And Newer

I think this is a great idea.

I prefer fewer rules, so would be against adding new rules especially;

All auctions ending on the same day. Same time is ok, but I think its good to spread the auction ends across many days.

$1 opening bid, in theory a nice idea, but, as we are trying to encourage more pre-war auctions, this might discourage people from listing. This could be revisited after a few months, especially if it gets like eBay with $100 opening bids on a $50 card.

Looking forward to the new changes

Bob

Unfortunately, we all want what we want!

I think we should be happy with any positive changes that Leon makes to the auction process.

As he said, pre war cards will not likely go for a song but cards from the 1950's forward may well go out cheap based on perceived values.

If you want to protect against that, don't list in the auction category.

I'll run a few cards and judge the results. If I don't like them, I won't be out a fortune and will not run more. That is the worst case result.

Pretty simple IMO.

I'm not picking on Darren specifically here but using it as a launching off point.

Generally speaking, most of the comments here are about sellers want to set the auction section up to protect themselves on the downside while giving them the added opportunity to potentially get more than if they just listed the card(s) in the regular BST forum. Letting the seller set the opening bid, or a hidden reserve, is driving us back to the old auction format that was being criticized in the previous thread. If they are concerned about not getting enough for what they are trying to sell, then maybe the auction place isn't for them. With regard to sellers fearing that they may be leaving money on the table by listing something in the BST, there are two options: first, they can just go to eBay where there are significantly more eyeballs. Or, they can set their cards up in BST as "high price or OBO." Essentially, a Dutch auction.

As a buyer, I can count the number of transactions I've done here in the last year on one hand and have a couple fingers left over. I accept that no small part of that is because I swim in a shallower end of the hobby pool (post-war, mid-grade, raw) than most members. But, it seems (to me anyways) like the auction section is full of stuff no one wants or things where the starting bid is where the sold eBay comps are at. And the BST seems to be (again to me) full of items that are priced above eBay comps.

Basically, the sellers can't have it both ways. If they want to take a chance to clean up in the auction section, then they should be willing to take the risk in the other direction.

Any minimum bid increments? $0.01? $1? or something based on the last price, like eBay. If a high bid did not meet the min increment, then leave it to the seller to either award the underbidder or increase the high bid to the min increment.

Agree with previous comments that if folks don't like the $1 min, then list the card in the BST - you can set your own price there.

The good thing here is that we can try something and if it doesn't work well, Leon can tweak the rules or shut it down.

For items under some amount $X, you could have a hard cutoff. If the bid wasn't above $X already by the deadline, the seller probably wasn't giving up a lot by having the hard ending time.

For items with bids over $X, you could pretty quickly go lot-by-lot in a chat feature (I don't think the one here works, but there are plenty of solutions) and the buyer/seller connect via PM afterwards.

Might be entertaining to try as a one-off.

Net54baseball Live Auctions - Rules etc...
 

The reason this hasn't been tried before is because of the managing of it.

These eventual, Live Auctions, sections have to be almost hands free for me. So the fewer rules ie.. ending, starting, increments etc... the better.

I can see $1.00 increments and still see opening bids of $1.00

I still like ending on one night, maybe one for each section such as Monday and Tuesday, as that will definitely get some eyeballs on stuff. And that is what sellers want. Remember, the sellers bring the buyers.

I am definitely not installing any kind of other s/w to do this. This is for fun, not for an ongoing main business. It's not for higher end items, necessarily.

I already have another Live Auction section set up, right below the current one, and ready to go when we are done discussing (in the next few days).

Again, I am tweaking the top post to what my prevailing thoughts are. Every message posted is being taken into consideration.

And yes, we can always revert back to what is there now, which really isn't working that great, by most (but not all) accounts.

Thanks!!

and another regular BST purchase....

Nice one.

Couple thoughts-

A. Love the same day end times as easier way to organize.

B. Completely hate extended bidding, and I can’t underline it enough. It’s a PITA to track and for those thinking you will make more, logic says no. Unless a completely new system with a minimum bid amount is created jumping by a set bid amount. Last minute max snipes will far exceed an hour of one dollar increments. If the auction ends at 9 pm and 3 people bid their max at 8:59, the highest max wins and that is the sell price. Far more likely to net sellers more in the long run then little minimum stepped bids.

C. I think all auctions should not end at the same time as it discourages bidding on multiple auctions. There should be a 5 minute gap between auction closings. You may think that extended bidding would help this, no that is not the concern, just another possibility. It has more to do with buyer budgeting. When you know your wins as they complete, you know if it is within a budget to go on. How many of you have dropped out of extended bidding in a traditional auction to know you have the resources to compete on a different lot? I rest my case.

D. Two categories works for me. I am okay with the cliche 1980 date, but I like the mentioned 1970 much better.

Is there a downside to 2$ minimum bid increments?
Seems like if you are willing to go up $1, you'd be good going $2.
Maybe it would shorten the extended bidding time a little (theoretically by half).

Or (and I know this is an extra rule and one more thing that would need to be regulated), bonus time minimum bid increments could potentially be set at a higher level (like $5). This might also encourage bidders to get in their best bids during regular time.

C'mon Leon, I can see the bright lights now, "LL's auction house and Vault Service mega sports empire" headquartered in that lil' ol' Texas town you live in.

You’re wrong on B…extended bidding. I’ve seen it many times already. Since you can’t enter a max bid, the snipe is just $1 higher. So nobody bids for three days on a nice T206, and it goes to the last day with a bid of $15 or something like that, because what’s the point of bidding higher. Then in the last minute, three guys will bid $16, and the first one wins. If there was extended bidding, it would go for twice that, most likely. You can’t have sniping without having max bids.

These (and the others) are great thoughts, I appreciate them very much.

Glad you like them ending on one day.

I agree about having a max number of overtimes, maybe 3? That's 15 minutes. After that, then if it's a tie the first person to bid the highest amount wins. Auction over. That said, I am still considering not having an extended bidding. Just bid the most you want and let the chips fall where they may.

I am not sure I care about bidding strategies, honestly, That is what I do with Auction House bidding, and to a much lesser extent, eBay. This isn't one of those. It's for selling a few things among members. It would be way, way too hard to manage staggered closings and many more rules. I barely want to put all of these rules in place that we are talking about.

I am also considering locking the auction threads after they are over. That way they don't get bumped with current ongoing auctions and it's easier to see active ones.

All fine and good but the cutoff needs to be at minimum 1973-75 in that range perhaps 1972?

Do we really need extended bidding on a 1973 Topps Buddy Bell or a group of 1968 commons? Maybe for higher tier items, my opinion. I’m not a fan of this myself..

Danny

The more I think about what the goal is, the less I like the idea of extended bidding. With this rinky dink platform you can post in about 5-6 different threads, or the same thread, in a minute. It might just be where you put your high bid in at the end, and hope it holds up. If there is a tie the first guess wins.
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Extended bidding
 

For those that don’t want extended bidding or max bids, then no complaints about the lack of quality lots. It just won’t be worth it for the sellers. Why bother bidding until the last minute, when you can get any card for a buck?

+1. Seems to me that sellers could come out ahead. Waiting until the end may cause someone to place a higher, one time bid that will not be considered a max but instead a fixed bid.

I'm not sure I understand the concern with extended bidding or not having a maximum bid option. Since there is no maximum bid entry apparatus, bidders either have to check-in to bid at auction close, or they need to put in a competitive bid when they can and hope it holds. this is good for sellers. And the extended bidding time also favors sellers and prevents an exclusive snipe strategy. Fairly favoring the sellers is good for bidders - because it promotes more auctions.

As I mentioned above, do y'all think increasing the minimum bid in the extended time (ideally also for the last minutes of regular time) would make sense and be something that would make things more pleasant for bidders? $1 bids at the end and in extended time are tedious. It is fun to win by a dollar, but it is annoying for everyone else.

If I was designing a digital platform, I'd think about incorporating an auto-figuring percentage of the current bid minimum bid for the last five minutes and into extended time to avoid the chump-change snipes for the win.

I am up for any and all change. But I do have a question about what can be auctioned. Is this only going to be for cards or can memorabilia be included in the auction section. I have some smaller items I have been wanting to try the auctions with but have not had the chance yet.

Either way, I am in to whatever changes that are made.

The point I was trying to make earlier is this. The number of post-war 'Topps-era' collectors on this site is pretty massive, but we are kinda treated like the ole red-headed stepchild. If the reason for this thread is to try to drive interest and action in auctions, then you gotta look at giving 'em their own section there.

Here's a quick and simple example: 'Josh' says, "Cool! I'll try out a new $1 starting bid auction, and list a lower grade 1960s Mantle card." (No matter the year, such a card will easily go for $100+.)

Scenario one: if the auction section is for 1950-1980 cards alone, then there's a much better chance the card will sell for what it 'should' sell for (your mileage may vary), because the right people will be patrolling the auction section. The card will have the 'proper' eyes viewing it, and it shan't be drowned out.

Scenario two: if the auction section is for the huge span of 1950-2022 cards, then (as always) the section will be crowded with all sorts of stuff that in no way, shape or form is of interest to the 'Topps-era' guys. That is why I suggested the hidden reserve (for scenario two). If your card is lost in a sea of other stuff, who in heck is going to risk posting something of decent value?? And again, isn't the purpose of this thread to increase auction action??? (Say that three times fast!!) Right now, there is a helluva lot of people just ignoring the auction section altogether, because of said overcrowding.

If space on the site is a problem, then maybe nothing can be done, but it's important to recognize the inherent problems in play.

Because there is no max bid option with a forum post, there has to be extended bidding to allow incremental bids to climb. Nobody is really going to raise their $15 bid that is winning at 8:58 to $45 at 8:59, even if that is there true “max”. Listing items with a next bid only option and no extended bidding will make this not viable for sellers trying to sell more expensive items, since that appears to be the new goal.

auction change
 

I like the idea of Pre 80 stuff

I like the idea of ONLY cards

I like the idea of ending about the same time

I think a min bid might be better at 5 bucks...my thinking is..maybe give the seller a little more confidence or comfort about listing something that is clearly worth more then a buck... ...A guy might be " afraid " to list a 66T Banks for one buck...but at $5...maybe feels a bit " safer" . I think this way might bring out some more desirable cards

Good point. It seems like Leon (understandably) wants to limit the number of different auction sections, but my first thought was that three sections would be great:

1) Cards Pre-(whatever year is the cutoff, I'm fine with anywhere from '50 to '80)
2) Post-(cutoff year)

and 3) $1 start auctions, for cards or other collectibles

This way the starting bid for the first two categories could be $5, or $10, or whatever...

My $.02

Yep...exactly what I'm saying. If we want $1 lots on the auction site, then no extended bidding needed. If you want $50 cards, then you have to have a mechanism to encourage raises. Otherwise, nobody is going to post nice cards. I'll just post my expensive ones on the Sell threads, and just lower the price a couple bucks every day, until it sells.

I have made a few more tweaks to the more easy version of what we have been talking about, taking everything into consideration.

I don't think a $100 card is going to go for $50 with everyone looking the last day...and knowing when to look., If I see a $100 card I want, I might even put in $120 last second bid, sort of like ebay.

I think the keep-it-simple-stupid method needs to be adhered to. Anything more and it won't be manageable because I don't want to manage it LOL.

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