A PSA 2 Demmitt STL sold for almost $13k yesterday
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325326929007

Amazing. An O'Hara 1.5 sold in the same auction run for $7400.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325326929006

No buyers premium on ebay, obviously.

Here are the sales for those 2 cards in the last year.

https://i.ibb.co/G5PwBB7/pbstl.png

A year ago, you could have gotten a Demmitt in an SGC 1.5 holder for $2500. Now a PSA 2 goes for almost $14k.

Are we getting close to the set going from The Big 4/520 to the Big 6/518? If we haven't already gotten to that point...

Those 2 represent the last 2 cards I need to complete my 520. I laughed out loud when those auctions ended. Those prices are significant up ticks for the grade. Was not happy at all to see those prices. But, T206 remains hot. Prices for PSA 5's & HOFers are steadily increasing.

You may be on to something with that 518 designation. If those prices continue to climb, they will be unattainable for most collectors. They pretty much are already.

They are getting tougher and tougher to come by. I believe there are less than 200 of each in existence? 518 may be the new 520.

Exactly not enough to go around.

PSA's pop numbers are kind of weird for both Demmitt and O'Hara, but there are less than 400 of each, between PSA and SGC. Probably a bunch of crossovers in there, and also a handful of raw copies still floating around. But I think its fairly safe to say there are about 400 or fewer copies of each still in existence.

The O'hara and Demmitt Polar Bear cards are a hobby mystery. The values are grounded in some odd mystique, not just supply and demand from T206 520 collectors, otherwise Bill Cranston beaters would be $10,000 cards.

Relative pop numbers from PSA...

Graded + Q

Honus Wagner 32 2 2
Ty Cobb Red 1856 379 106
Plank 70 7 1
Ohara PB 143 22 10
Demmitt PB 166 23 5
Cranston 171 36 10
Violat 180 34 11

Great Point Rob. Was going to respond with something similar...but you beat me to it, and included the leg work 👍. Other "rarities" within the set also fall into this hobby mystery, as they really aren't all that rare. The x factor may have more to do with how often they come up for sale/auction than how scarce they truly are?

cranston is a little misleading because a vast majority of them (i suspect) are not graded and likely never will be. Demmitt and O'Hara are well known as polarbear-only rarities so a large % of known copies will be graded. not all of course, but many more than cranston's percentages.

another thing to consider is that within polar bear backs they are not any rarer than any other polar bear subject.....its just that all other polar bear subjects are available in common piedmont/sweet cap backs (and likely several other backs).

I would rather buy rare backs

Cranston
 

What does a Cranston go for these days? Couldn’t find any record of sales from this year.

Greg Morris sells T206 Cranston's that are raw and described as "fillers" from around $50-$100.

I mean, they are actually two of the most populous Polar Bears, because they are the highest value.

I have the following as the Polar Bears with the most combined pop between PSA and SGC

Cobb Red
Demmitt
O'Hara
Chance Yellow
Cobb Bat Off
WaJo Pitching
Joss Pitching
Mathewson Dark Cap
Young Glove Shows

All of those have 200+ Polar Bears. The Red Cobb was the only one, last I checked, with more Polar Bears graded than Demmitt/O'Hara. Red Cobb had been graded almost 500 times.

4 raw ones (that I could quickly find in my ebay algo) sold in the last 3 months.

It's far easier to acquire a Cranston than a Demmitt or O'hara St. Louis despite what the pop reports say and if the price doubled on Cranstons tomorrow for some reason it would be even easier to acquire one.

I agree that there are hundreds of ungraded Cranston's. Let's say there are 600 total T206 Demmitt Polar Bears out there. To me, that's a lot of cards. I've seen hundreds offered for sale in my lifetime. The only reason I don't have one is the price. I think they are over-priced. It's just my opinion.

Although I don't have the T206 Demmitt with the Polar Bear back, I do have this T214. It's the only one graded by SGC and there are none on the PSA pop report. I guess there could be a raw one or two out there.

That's a beautiful Card Rob. Probably didn't pay $13k for it either.

Thanks, Ryan. Yeah, I like this card. It was 1700 plus auction fees in 2017.

First, Rob, that is a mighty fine Demmitt Victory card. One to be proud of.


Now... Those frustrating white border tobacco cards, most call them the T206 set.

Set is a bit of a misnomer. Let's collect 'em all, but hold on, let's pass on Wagner. Or, let's pass on Wagner and Plank. OR, no need to bother with Wagner, Plank, Magie and that confusing Doyle card.

So it is about where you draw the line.

For me, first time I chased those cards I ground to a stop around 512. Grrrrr. I recall when I'd been a few cards over 500 for a while that a fellow asked me where I was on them... I told him I lacked O'Hara, the two Cobb portraits, Young with that glove, and a few other commons. I said I had all of the minor leaguers. That prompted him to ask about the southern leaguers, and I responded that they were minor leaguers, I had them. I sold almost all of them to a good hearted, knowledgeable board member. And after a bit, I was at it again. This time around, age has become an additional factor in the chase.

Contemplation had me thinking that this second try at gathering the cards, i might pass on the Southern Leaguers... but I live an hour away from Nashville, so I kept those 48 cards among the ones I wanted to gather. How many different players are in T206? I don't recall at the moment, I think it's in the high 360's. So, maybe a place to draw the line is to aim for a card of each PLAYER is in T206, but subtracting out Wagner, Plank, Magie, and Doyle; and maybe Demmitt and O'Hara if you want. That does make the chase MUCH more manageable. Instantly, you'll only need one Cobb (and truthfully, I really like that bat on shoulder Cobb card). You'll only need one Young, one Johnson, one Mathewson... one McGraw instead of 4, one Tinker instead of 5!!! And you can get the New York versions of Demmitt and O'Hara and save a bundle.

Second time around I knew (and still know) that I wanted a decent Demmitt and a decent O'Hara. I sold a not so great but ok O'Hara to a fellow collector who wanted to make payments, which I accommodated, he made every payment in a timely fashion. I like Demmitt and O'Hara. Like them very much, slightly more partial to Demmitt. When I commenced round two I chased Demmitt and O'Hara first, my thinking was that there are more green Cobbs out there than the tougher Demmitt and O'Hara's. That logic remains true, but the green Cobb demand pushes harder on the Cobb prices than the prices on Demmitt and O'Hara. I don't see someone not liking them as their reason for not collecting them; I think they say that when they mean that they cost more than they wanna pay.

I think you draw your own line. 524, 521 or 522, 520, 518, 470 (518-48 southern leaguers), or wherever you choose. Or just collect a select few of the teams. The Cubs are fun, it's neat to sort them by series and spread them out, to see then uniform changes. I have the Giants, but golly there's a BUNCH of white border Giants. As a Cardinals fan, I smile a bit because the St. Louis Cardinals aren't that difficult. If you do a team or a few teams, consider sorting the cards by team, as kids of 110 years ago did, instead of the alphabetical order that the catalogs utilize.

Golly, I might sell Demmitt and O'Hara if the price keeps increasing. But I don't think they're overpriced in comparison to other T206 cards; not any more so than other white border cards.

Is Lajoie in 1933 Goudey?


Rob, that's a great looking T214 Demmitt.

Thanks, Frank, and good luck in your quest to add more T206 cards. I agree that there are many ways to collect the set that are fun. I'm working on some sub-sets and back runs, so I won't have to buy them all, at least not today.

Holy crap, not been paying attention to those two. Bad news is I need O'Hara. The good news is I secured a PSA 4 Demmitt PB a while back. Win some lose some I guess. LOL

I would rather have that t214 Demmitt any day over a t206 PB. Awesome card

Thanks, Ryan, yeah, I was going to do a Demmitt back run, but I'll need to get a Polar Bear some day for that. I'm going to wait and see how the prices go.

Glad I held onto this one from a local raw collection last year! Has no idea it was a rare card.

Wow!
 

I bought beaters of both Demmitt and O'Hara in 2015, with the thought of upgrading down the road. At the time I bought these it was hard to swallow spending that much for two cards that look like they spent a lot of time in a kid's back pocket. Now it looks like I'm stuck with these two, as I am not spending the money it would cost for an upgrade. With all that said, I am glad that I decided to at least purchase these two. Beat up or not, at least I have them if I ever decide to complete the set.

Attachment 534581Attachment 534582

Attachment 534583Attachment 534584

I have both Demmitt and Ohara PSA 2
Maybe it’s time to sell.

John P

Takes some guts to call the top, especially if it’s a card near and dear to your heart…

I bought my O'Hara a few years back, dont think I would spring for as good condition one with the prices we're seeing today.

Sold a Demmitt raw I had graded as A by SGC. Broke even on that one at 4k two months ago? Guess I should have held off until the market was oversaturated with them, or not pissed & moaned to myself a year ago when it was 4k for a nice one. Anyhow, with the price of the O’Hara, decided to pass on trying these two together for awhile, since they are all out there now with prices going up by the day

Someone once said, I would rather have a hole in my card than a hole in my collection.

Haha! That’s great. Whoever said that had far better insight than I will ever have. Leon, you’re like a “card collector whisperer”, I suddenly feel much better about my Demmit and O’Hara beaters, thank you!

Frank, you are so right. We all draw our lines in the sand for The Monster. Me, I decided I wanted one card of each HOFer (excluding Wagner and Plank), and I wanted that card to be a portrait whenever possible. The only one I decided to keep 2 of was Johnson, because I got the ready to pitch version when I was a kid, from Mike Berkus at one of his Anaheim shows. I like the look of the portrait better, but that ready to pitch card goes nowhere until I die.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...on%20ready.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20portrait.jpg

How many raw are there out there? There are a few of us older guys who still have them, and are flying under the radar. I finished my 520 in 1972, and still have every one of them raw. 95% of them are two-owner cards. I have had them 50+, and the guy I got them from was a kid in NYC and acquired them in 1909-1911.

Leon often follows his comments with a card., so I thought I'd help him out this time with a card that I'm thrilled to have because it serves two of my collecting focuses - type cards and cards of players on the 1924 Washington Senators WS Championship team.

That's amazing. Would love to see this set!

+1