Wow Rare Air 52 Mantle SGC 5 REA
 

300,000 with juice wozer

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=112451

That 9.5 should easily go for 15 million plus

That is insane...I remember when these were 10k not too long ago.

Made many investment mistakes in my life and have enough capital loss carryover for the next 200 years. Fortunately my PSA 6 and 7 '52 Mantles should wipe the slate clean

You're in the driver seat my man! Congratulations :-)

When was that? On the PSA site, the cheapest 5 I could find was around $14K from 2006 to 2011 with quite a few higher than that during the same time frame. SGC 5s may have been cheaper, but it seems like it was more than "not too long ago" that they would have been $10K.

Russ - Mazel Tov !!! You did well you old geezer, you Attachment 529712

I wanna say within the last 10 years. Which is a blink in the realm of collectibles.

Could a SGC 5 52 Mantle Now be a 5 Million Dollar Card In 10 years I have no idea.

I just feel like the high bidder is buried with it at 306,000.

The consigner has to be jumping for JOY ! Congratulations to him/her :-)

The card has nice centering, but the quality of the image sure isn't that great.

But not 50 50 which is what I thought the centering mavens needed to pay the really huge premiums. I don't understand the price, myself.

The card has incredible eye appeal for a 5. Super high-end for the grade. Period. Case closed. Great purchase congrats to the buyer.

Congrats to the consignor.

What's the prior high price for an SGC 5? I am sure with all the cards SGC has graded there have been some gorgeous 5s. Without that context, and perhaps you have it, hard to say "great purchase"?

Agreed....if I was the consignor, I would have felt like I won the lottery.

Classic Bidding War Result?
 

This could be the result of a classic bidding war between two people who wanted the card badly. That's all it takes to end in an eye popper. I was watching the bidding during the auction's last days and as I recall it was at $100,000 or so on Sunday. Incredible final number. Wow.

For those that own a card of this caliber, has this sale motivated you to think about selling?

War between card doctors??

Uhhhh
 

.. The current thread about capital gains on baseball cards has cooled a lot of jets , at least until their applications for Swiss citizenship are approved.

..http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...SSPSA7_NEW.JPG....

..fortunately in my situation my capital gains on my own '52's will permit me to remain in Pottsville R D 4 , where the goats and sheep take care of the lawn.

..

Don't let the capital gains tax deter you. It is still capped at a max 20% rate......for now. If they end up taking that cap off after a certain point, watch for a lot more of the big value cards to start appearing for sale/auction, before the higher tax rates take effect.

And picking Swiss citizenship may not be a great move. Along with income taxes levied at the federal, canton (their version of our states), and municipal levels, the Swiss may also levy a wealth tax at the canton and local levels. My understanding is their taxes can be as complicated and confusing as ours.

Always something to be considered when a card goes off the charts.

It has not motivated me to consider selling. I'd sell my collection if it was the only available difference maker perhaps in getting a dream home for my family, but that's the only scenario I could envision.

This REA SGC 5 example in question is certainly not what I would call the absolute best centering for a 311-- yet that degree hardly if ever surfaces, and a collector waiting for it can be waiting years and years. There was a 3 that sold at Heritage last year for $162,000 that had what I'd call as close to perfect as they come, and I believe PWCC has an SGC 7 with that degree of centering for over a million ask.

So the REA card is certainly a very strong one graded on the curve against what surfaces (the usual tilt and centering problems), and all it takes is two bidders with the right bankroll to slug it out. Auctions bring a competitive angle into the mix that simply cannot be ignored. And if a card brings out a mix of passionate collectors and card docs who see dollar signs, that is the recipe for very spirited bidding. It's happened to me on certain cards when I later found out I was bidding against a collector or two and a doctor.

BobC, are long term capital gains on collectibles taxes at 20% or 28%?

https://www.investopedia.com/article...bles-taxed.asp

The one in Heritage that sold in Feb of this year was a SGC 5, it blows this REA example in my opinion.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515

also one just recently sold in PWCC Premier that looked killer, SGC 5 1952 mantle went for $156,00 So how are we getting to $306,000k 1 months later?? I have no idea ?

https://sales-history.pwccmarketplac...ms/PREMIER3873

If I had 1952 Topps Mantle SGC 5 of same caliber as this last one, I would be nervous to consign mine. Fearful it would only bring between a 100-150k, somewhat more normal. Not saying I don't believe the last sale just saying it's not normal to be to see that card going for $306,000.

204 on the Heritage. So a 50 percent gain.

Peter, Look at the last one for $156,00 PWCC in July

I don't know, John. Many things in this hobby leave one shaking one's head.

It is highly subjective, yet I much prefer the REA card to the other two linked above. The absence of tilt is big to my eye. Do I prefer the REA card 100k more... all I can say to that as a centering guy is I would not bid on any of those three, yet would pay that premium and then some for what I wanted.

Bidding wars can really drive up a card. I remember talking with a good friend here at Net54 about a particular card he wanted to win at auction; another guy kept topping him last second to reset the timer and it became a heated thing where he was determined to take the card home. As I am sure the other guy was, too. Happened to me as well most expensively on my own 311. Was going at it with a collector I knew and a third who was a buddy on this site, and when the smoke cleared it went for more than double the then going rate-- albeit the "average" rate. As they say, average prices are for average cards.

Agree !

Maybe 20+ years ago. That is a pretty long time in the card world. I bought a raw one in 1995 for $6K. I thought it would grade 5 and would have been worth $8K in that grade at that time. It graded PSA 4 and I sold it for $6K. Good old days but I lost the grading fees. Fortunately, the grading fee at that time for Express was $25 for Mantle as well as I can remember so I almost broke even. Have never owned another one. $300K for an SGC 5 is crazy!!!!!!

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I can't see the enormous premium put on near perfect centering. The quality of the image and its eye appeal always matter most to me. I'd prefer an card with OK centering and excellent photo eye appeal over a perfectly centered card with weaker photo eye appeal.
Placing such a premium on centering at the expense of photo quality is like preferring an Old Judge card with square corners grading a 7 with a light photo over an Old Judge card with rounded corners grading a 2 and having a sharp photo. The image quality is paramount to me.

It's definitely a relatively new phenomenon in my experience, yet there are guys whose eye is so good (or OCD so deep LOL) they can instantly spot and reject a 51-49 card I swear. I personally am not obsessed with perfect centering and like you I don't really understand it, but it definitely explains some big premiums on some cards.

564. Centerrifical Force
The way your eyes immediately tell you if a card is rightfully centered enough for you personally, independent of what other collectors or TPGs may think.

I think both aspects have to be fully present, or I don't go for a card. I agree that a card without a focused image is a huge turnoff and total nonstarter. Same for centering. I like to wait out a card that has both aspects and then go all out, take home the one I want to look at before bed and when I wake up.

I'm one of those hyper OCD folks that Peter describes above as being someone who can spot a 51/49 centering "issue" at a quick glance. My eyes ALWAYS go to the borders first. I don't even notice the image or the player at all until after I've assessed the centering. If the card passes my centering test, only then will I move on to the image and condition. It's just how I'm wired. I've also made friends with other collectors who approach their collections the same way. I think it's difficult for those of you who aren't OCD about centering to see valuations from our perspective in the same way that we have a difficult time understanding why others would want to pay $$$ more for nicer corners. Cards that are well centered just have an entirely different pricing structure (especially in vintage). Obviously, we all know that to some degree, or as a basic principle, but when I read through these sorts of threads, I often find myself surprised by the non-centering OCD collectors.

When I saw this 52 Topps Mantle SGC 5 in REA, I said, "there's no way it sells for less than $250k". You just can't look at other 5s and think, "maybe 150k plus a bump for the centering?". That approach will always leave you well short of the hammer price for a high-end card with good eye appeal and low pop counts. Everyone around here says that the 52 Topps Mantle is not a low pop count card. Sure, that may be true if eye-appeal doesn't matter, but for a collector like myself, or MattyC, all those other off-centered or tilted, or diamond cut cards might as well not even exist. We have zero interest in those cards in any grade.

For the OCD crew, centering isn't just a question of whether the image is in the middle of the frame. It also matters HEAVILY whether or not that image is tilted. I will reject an otherwise dead-centered card with even a 2-degree tilt or diamond cut every time. I just have no interest in it. It's also why I roll my eyes whenever I see Ken Kendrick's PSA "10" Mantle (it has a significant tilt to it). And when it comes to centering shift, left to right matters more than top to bottom to us OCD people. That's why this SGC 5 Mantle sold at such a premium. The Left to Right is 50/50 and the T/B is 58/42.

If you want to have your mind really blown, wait until a truly dead-centered 50/50 both ways Mantle surfaces in a 5 holder from PSA or SGC. I'd wager good money that it eclipses $500k at auction. But it could be years before one surfaces (or decades). There just aren't enough of them out there. I would estimate that there are fewer than 20 truly dead-centered crease-free 52T Mantles in existence. I'm not just pulling that number out of thin air either. I did a deep dive into the data on the 52 Topps Jackie Robinson a few months back when a dead-centered PSA 4 hit the market. It's my favorite card. I literally went through every single 52 Topps Jackie Robinson on VCP that has ever sold and tallied up how many of them were crease-free VG-EX or better with perfect 50/50 centering and how many were close (50/50 one way and ~47/53 or better the other). Out of ~1,000 total transactions with images, only 9 (yes, NINE) were perfectly centered, with another 22 that were close. To someone like me, that means this 52 Topps Jackie Robinson is really a pop 31 card, only 9 of which I truly want. The premium I'm willing to pay for a dead-centered copy would blow your mind.

I ended up winning the auction for that 52 Jackie for less than half my max bid. The hammer price was $20.4k. It's a PSA 4 (shown below along with my Minoso RC - which I also paid a premium for). I got extremely lucky in that auction. That Jackie sells for $40k+ if the right buyers had seen it (I'm one of them). But an average 52 Topps Jackie in a PSA 4 sells for ~$15k.

I think the best analogy I can give in terms of figuring out what these centered key cards are likely worth to someone like me is actually with ultra-modern cards. You have all these thousands and thousands of copies of a Luka Doncic RC or Acuna, Soto, whoever. But those Gold Parallels that are serial numbered /10 sell for HUGE HUGE multiples of what a regular base card or "silver" parallel sells for. Centered cards are to vintage what Gold parallels are to ultra-modern. It's not just a small bump that some people are willing to pay (though it does manifest itself like that for some cards with less demand). With key cards, the sky is the limit. Especially when there are only a dozen or so in existence.


Here's my Jackie. And no, I wouldn't trade it for your 55/45 PSA 8.

Note - the tilt on the top is just how this card's image is shaped. This is what a perfectly centered 1952 Topps Jackie Robinson Type 1 looks like (there is a Typ1 1 and a Type 2 Jackie just like there is with Mantle, in case you were unaware).

Snowman, I totally agree. I, too, first assess a card's framing— if it feels right to me, and I know right off the bat, then my eye is drawn inwards from the even framing to the central image. Then that image has to be focused with good color. At that point I go for it.

For example, a 51B Mick can have very rare centering, yet those dreaded print lines or a registration/focus issue (which is so prevalent on that card) will totally kill the card.

Sidenote: a case can be made that the 51B Mick is an even more brutal card to find with great centering and image quality than the 52T Mick.

I also agree about the amount of truly dead centered 1952 Topps Mantles in existence.

I have been tracking them probably very similarly to how you have been over the years.

My number was also ~20 what I would call "best centering available" examples of the card. I like to phrase it this way: there are 1951B and 1952T Mantles, and then there are centered examples of those cards. The population of the latter is very, very low. And relative to demand for those examples, fugghedaboutit.

One specimen of the ~20 that comes to mind was that gorgeous PSA 3 that Heritage sold last year and went for $162,000; that card definitely was better than the recent SGC 5, which was certainly no slouch compared to the usual examples that surface in any grade.

By the way, truly gorgeous Jackie right there! Well chosen!

It's interesting how people are drawn to different things. I see image quality and registration first, corners second, and centering (unless really bad) third. I might not even notice a slight tilt until a later look. If I had to guess why this is, it's because so many of the cards I pulled from packs as a kid were not all that well centered and I am just used to it.

Great point, Peter. I started opening packs in 86 and I remember a good amount of cards that were less than perfect on the framing front— yet I would imagine the 1970s would have been a MUCH different experience. I opened a few 1975 boxes when I first got out of college, as that set was my dream set growing up with all that color and star power and big RCs, and the centering was way worse than I had in my 86 cards!

When I open boxes today from sets I loved as a kid, I am totally cool with slightly off centering. Once I saw how expensive individual single vintage graded cards were, when I got into them, that was when I began to say to myself, "Hell, if I am shelling out this much, I wanna get great centering, too." From there I began to see how certain cards, like '76 Topps Brett for example, were usually so OC that hunting centered examples became a fun challenge— and also a way to find rarity in a card that at first blush didn't seem rare. So that is how my journey into centering came about.

As someone who hunts for centered copies of all the oversized early 50s Topps cards, and as someone who obsesses over data, I should also probably point out that the centered pricing gap (or perhaps 'multiplier' is a more appropriate term) has also been widening in recent years. I think as more and more of the modern collectors wake up and smell the vintage coffee after bastardizing their modern rainbow glitter cards, it seems like they are trying to compete for some of the higher eye-appeal copies.

Here's a snapshot of a few of my 52s with lower-tier HOFers and commons. I often find myself paying double or triple "comps" for these as well. Sometimes I get lucky and don't have to pay much of a premium, but it's always fun to get into snipe wars on eBay with other centering OCD collectors. There will be cards that otherwise sell for $20 sometimes where I'll bid $120 and lose to some other nutcase like myself. Always get a good laugh out of those ones. Guy probably thinks he got shilled. Nope. Just another centering-focused collector.

Wow - those are two beauties Travis! Love the 52 Jackie!

I'm 100% with you on centering, I can spot even the slightest off-centering at a quick glance and it sets off my OCD something terrible! That being said this is the only 52 Topps in my collection right now (centering isn't 100% perfect, but I love it)...

That was a huge number for that Mantle in a 5. Centering and great contrast and focus make a great card.

Great looking other '52s also.
I also look at centering first. The card can be gorgeous but if it's OC it's probably not for me (unless a very rare type card). I have bought cards with other defects, when the centering is spot on.
And one of my biggest peeves is when sellers say a card is centered when it clearly isn't close...

I never cared about centering way back when I collected unsigned cards. In fact, I loved 90/10s, miscuts, etc. Actually thought they looked more interesting that way. It certainly helped my feelings that I'm from the hometown of O-Pee-Chee, the undisputed kings of postwar O/C issues.

Thankfully, signed card collectors are nowhere near this finicky. Most would rather have great centering, of course, but the vast majority are fine with anything that isn't freakishly O/C. Makes life a lot easier.

The amount of money being so easily spent since March 2020 has really taken this hobby to a new level. It’s amazing to see....If you own some of these higher end or even middle low end Centered marquee cards and don’t need the money it makes ZERO SENSE TO SELL...if history repeats itself which it usually does these cards are going nowhere but up in value. I’ve been tempted to sell to own a 52 Mantle but I just can’t do it, I have some amazing cards these would sadly all have to go if I wanted to own a nice 52 Mantle in condition I’m looking for.
Sometimes you just miss it.

I either prefer perfectly centered or horribly miscut. Anything inbetween makes me crazy for the most part.

I now laugh when I think back to the first issue of Baseball Cards Magazine for the Spring of 1981. On the cover were: 1952 Mantle worth $1100, and $17,500 value Honus Wagner card. I gotta get working on that darn time machine.

I completely agree with Snowman's comments about OCD and centering. It is the first thing my eyes focus on, and cards that are diamond cut give me anxiety, lol.

As I transitioned away from post-war vintage like the 50s Topps sets, I've almost had to retrain my brain as to the kind of cards I find acceptable. As we know, T206s (my main collecting interest now) are rife with printing problems, miscuts, diamond cuts, etc. It has actually been good therapy for my brain to learn to accept these imperfections, because if I didnt, there is essentially no way I'd be able to put together this set, given that I am not extremely wealthy. That said, my centering OCD has mainly forced me to be much more accepting of other flaws like terrible corners, paper loss, and wrinkles/creases. A surface wrinkle (especially if its truly a wrinkle and not a crease) is much more acceptable to me than a card that is wildly off center or diamond cut.

Behold :
 

And tonight ladies and gentlemen , for your viewing pleasure , the quality control staff of The Topps Corporation proudly presents :

..http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...2NIPPY_NEW.JPG

..

lol that made my eyes twitch. Imagine seeing that card at the factory and saying "yes, yes this is goooood"

1941 Goudey cards can often remind you of being in a funhouse where the floors and walls are all slanty and askew.

Brian (please avert eyes if these cards will potentially cause your brain to seize up)

I have a dead centered psa 4 Mantle...wonder what it would fetch at auction...