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Pre-war Non-HOFers Worth Collecting
Shawn Gallagher’s post earlier tonight got me thinking about my pre-war wish list. I’ve expanded beyond HOFers to include other notable players. Who makes the wish list is sort of arbitrary but I do try to follow some guidelines. I like to deploy the Mattingly / Jackson method. Don Mattingly and Bo Jackson didnt sniff the Hall, but my card collection wouldn’t be complete without them. So, I look to add players like them. Perennial league leaders in major categories, or the equivalent of multiple all star appearances. The top performers at their position during their playing days. Or those like Bo who had that extra undefinable something. Anyway, I already have a very long list of non-HOF who I want in my collection, but who am I missing? Who should I know about but don’t. Here is my list:
Cupid Childs Dave Orr Harry Stovey Jim Devlin Paul Hines Pete Browning Silver King Tip O’Neil Kid Gleason Jack Glasscock Bob Caruthers Roy Thomas Joe Jackson Stuffy McGinnis Art Fletcher Bill Bradley Bill Dahlen Jack Barry Chick Gandil Chief Bender Chief Meyers Eddie Cicotte Wildfire Schulte Fred Merkle Gavvy Cravath Hal Chase Harry Davis Harry Lumley Larry Doyle Sherry Magee Mike Donlin Buck Weaver Jake Daubert Hippo Vaughn Babe Adams Bob Shawkey Roger Peckinpaugh Smoky Joe Wood Wally Schang Slim Sallee Jim Thorpe Baby Doll Jacobson Dave Bancroft Happy Felsch Lefty Williams Wally Pipp Cy Williams Dutch Leonard Bob Meusel Eddie Rommel George Burns Irish Meusel Ken Williams Urban Shocker Buzz Arlett Babe Herman Bob O’Farrell Firpo Marberry Frank Crosetti Jo-Jo Moore Lefty O’Doul Lon Warneke Moe Berg Riggs Stevenson Tommy Bridges Wally Berger Dixie Walker Pepper Martin Red Rolfe Schoolboy Rowe Stan Hack Doc Cramer Dolph Camilli Mel Harder Ripper Collins Rudy York Dizzy Trout Mort Cooper Paul Dean Spud Chandler Bob Johnson Bucky Walters Charlie Keller Dom DiMaggio Dutch Leonard Eddie Miller Frank McCormick Frankie Hayes George McQuinn Harlond Clift Johnny Vander Meer Paul Derringer Tommy Heinrich Vince DiMaggio |
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Two more quirky names..... Ten Million and Louis Sockalexis (sp?) .
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I'd add Jack Quinn, I always try to pick his cards up since he's a common with a great career and history. Pitched until age 49, and outperformed the league ERA all the way through his age 48 season. Appeared in T205/T206/T207 and 1933 Goudey as an active MLB player (unlike Lajoie, Speaker and Collins), won 249 games with a 114 career ERA+. Not a HOFer, but a consistently good and extremely long career.
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Robert Henry Bescher (February 25, 1884 – November 29, 1942) was a baseball outfielder who played 11 seasons in the major leagues. Born in London, Ohio, he played his best seasons with the Cincinnati Reds, and was one of the National League's best base stealers during his time.
The switch-hitting Bescher played 5 seasons with Cincy, and established himself as a dangerous player on the basepaths with the Reds. He led the NL in stolen bases for four consecutive years from 1909 to 1912, and his 81 stolen bases in 1911 set a league record which was not broken for over 50 years. Outside of stolen bases, he was the NL leader in runs in 1912, and was the NL leader in walks in 1913. Also in 1912, he hit a career-best .282 and finished 5th in voting for the Chalmers Award, a forerunner to the modern MVP award. |
I've found a nice cutoff to be players who reached WAR 20, either Fangraphs or or Baseball Reference, and that's defined my sets for the period before I started watching baseball. That certainly includes pre-war.
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Great list. Benders in the Hall, switch him out for Dummy Hoy.
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I read through your list and you have some really great players here.. how about Jimmy Sheckard and Big Ed Reulbach ?
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good list. early Giants, A's, Cubs, White Sox, Yankees, later Reds... good themes. in addition to many of those names, I reflexibly collect Heinie Groh and Hank Gowdy. I also add Fred Snodgrass if he comes up. He was once almost as infamous as Merkle.
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As a Tiger fan, might I suggest Bobby Veach, probably the best Tiger not in the Hall of Fame.
From SABR: As the clean-up hitter on one of the strongest offensive teams of his day, Bobby Veach was one of the truly great RBI men of the late Deadball Era, easily leading the major leagues in runs driven in over the twelve years, 1913 to 1924, that he was a full time player. Veach drove in over 100 runs in a season six times, hit 30 or more doubles eight times and smacked ten or more triples ten years in a row. In all, Veach played for 14 major league seasons and hit .300 or better ten times, finishing with a lifetime .310 batting average. |
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Colby Jack Coombs, Deacon McGuire and Deacon Phillippe are 3 of my favorite 4 non-HOFers to collect (Stovey being my 4th, already on your list).
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I'll just one single card of an otherwise forgotten man:
Art Whitney with Dog |
John Titus
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Also add Ray Chapman to the list. His cards are always expensive.
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How about Big Ed Konetchy, The Candy Kid.
Some quotes and stats from Wikipedia: “While he was considered an above-average hitter (he batted over .300 four times) he was more known around the league for his supreme consistency, his never-faltering speed, and his high degree of defensive skill at first base.” “By the end of 1920, he had surpassed 2000 career hits and was quite high on the all-time leaderboard (into the top 25).” And some career highlights: * Stole home twice on September 30, 1907 against Boston * Broke up four no-hitters over the course of his career * Hit two inside-the-park home runs against Brooklyn on August 5, 1912 * Picked up hits in 10 consecutive at bats in 1919, tying a record which would later be broken * Led the league in total bases in 1915 (278) * Made the Top 10 in the league in batting average six times (1909, 1910, 1912, 1915, 1919, 1920) * Holds an MLB record with 4 consecutive seasons with 20 or more triples (1909-1912 Then there is this chestnut. “In 1911, with the Cards only three games out of first place in early July, the team was involved in a train crash on its way from Philadelphia to Boston. 47 passengers were injured, while twelve died. None of the Cardinals were seriously injured, due to a pre-trip change in the location of their car to the rear of the train. Konetchy and Cards manager Roger Bresnahan led the rescue effort, carrying many passengers to safety, some of whom may have died. Despite posting their first winning season since 1901, the Cardinals never recovered from the incident, finishing a distant fifth; but Konetchy led the NL with 38 doubles, and his own team with six home runs and 88 RBIs.” He probably gets less credit than he deserves because he played on poor teams. And though he was consistently near the top in many categories, was never the bright shining star at the very top. |
Hans Lobert
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I'll add Mike Tiernan from the NY teams of the 1880's and '90s
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Moses Yellowhorse
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Wild Bill Donovan
Arlington Latham Heine Zimmerman Carl Mays Tom Pratt Art Develin Elmer Flick Elmer Smith Sam Crawford Harry Heilman Sam Coveleski Adolfo Luque Jack Fournier Johnny Allen Bill Lee Johnny Kling Sherry Magee Ed Reulbach Shanty Hogan Muddy Ruel |
I would add Wayne Terwillger, Hank Bauer and Ralph Houk. All served with distinction on WWII. I always marvel at the men who fought in the war and came home to play again.
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Joe & Elmer Gedeon cards
One blacklisted for the Blackbox scandal the other killed in ww2.
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this isn't stat or career based, but when I was putting together a pre-war type collection, I targeted Hall of Famers OR players who were featured in The Glory of Their Times
Jimmy Austin Rube Bressler Al Bridwell Stan Coveleski Sam Crawford George Gibson Goose Goslin Hank Greenberg Heinie Groh Babe Herman Harry Hooper Davy Jones Sad Sam Jones Willie Kamm Tommy Leach Hans Lobert Rube Marquard Chief Meyers Lefty O'Doul Bob O'Farrell Edd Roush Fred Snodgrass Specs Toporcer Bill Wambsganss Paul Waner Joe Wood |
For PCL fans, Ox Eckhardt. Per Wikipedia:
Oscar George "Ox" Eckhardt (December 23, 1901 – April 22, 1951) was an outfielder for the Boston Braves and Brooklyn Dodgers. Eckhardt holds the known all-time professional baseball record for batting average, counting both major and minor league stats: .365 (Ty Cobb holds the major league record, .366, but Cobb's minor league average of .304 lowers his total professional-ball average to .364, second behind Eckhardt. Eckhardt hit .192 in the major leagues, but in just 52 at bats, so his known minor league average of .366 was lowered just one point.) In spite of his outstanding ability to hit for average, Eckhardt – a poor fielder who lacked much home run power – was never able to establish himself in the major leagues. In 1933, he hit .414 for the San Francisco Missions, which is still the PCL (Pacific Coast League) record. In 1935, he again won the PCL batting title, edging out 20-year-old Joe DiMaggio, .399 to .398. This finally earned him a slot on a major league club, the 1936 Brooklyn Dodgers, with a chance to win a job as a regular. But Eckhardt was 36 years old by then, was still a poor fielder with little power, and in ten starts hit just .182 in 44 at bats. He was sent back to the minors, never to return. Eckhardt also played halfback and quarterback for the Texas Longhorns, and professionally as a halfback in 11 games for the New York Giants of the National Football League. https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...dt%20large.jpg |
Thank you, everyone. Definitely some players named who I am not yet familiar with and will be reading up on them shortly. Looks like my want list is about to get longer.
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A few more Clevelanders!
I like the addition of Mel Harder. I would also consider pitcher George Uhle and outfielder Charlie Jamieson. Uhle pitched to 200 wins in 17 seasons with Cleveland, Detroit, and New York. Jamieson had a lifetime .303 BA over 18 seasons with Cleveland, Washington, and Philadelphia. Also consider adding Ray Chapman to the list.
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I will suggest 19th century outfielder Jimmy Ryan. It's not a travesty that his is not in the Hall of Fame but if he got in, he would be better than several already elected (of his ten most similar players, eight are HOFers). He is somewhere between the fourth and eighth best centerfielder of the 19th century (behind Hamilton, Duffy, and Browning and in the same group as Gore, Griffin, Hines, and Van Haltren). .308 lifetime average, 2513 hits, 1643 runs scored (sixth highest among 19th century players, based on eyeballing the list), and the career assists leader as an outfielder until Speaker passed him in 1924 (he is still third).
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Jim McCormick
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Early baseball/football player
Ed Abbaticchio ,played infield with Honus Wagner with Pirates. Also a star football player for Latrobe from 1895-1900.Credited with developing the first spiral punt.Is also the first Italian surname to appear in the major leagues.
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Harry Krause was basically the first Mark Fidrych, as in his rookie year he won 18 games and led the league in ERA. After that he hurt his arm, but went back to the minors and ended up with over 300 pro wins.
Joe Hauser doesn't have many cards, but he's definitely an interesting player. In 1924, he was second in the AL in homers with 27, behind only Babe Ruth, but then he got hurt, and never had a full season in the majors again, though he could still hit well. Going back to the minors, he had homer totals of 63 and 69 for the Baltimore Orioles and Minneapolis Millers. One of the great minor league sluggers of all time. Jigger Statz is another one who is primarily noteworthy as a minor leaguer. In 1923 for the Chicago Cubs he hit .319 with 209 hits, but he spent most of his career with the Los Angeles Angels. Actually, the Angels were the only minor league team he ever played with, as he spent 18 years with them between 1920 and 1942. He had 737 hits in the majors and 3,356 in the PCL, and so is one of the few pro players with over 4,000 hits. Just realized he died today 33 years ago, so good timing I guess. RIP. Jack Ogden is featured in 1933 Goudey as a Baltimore Oriole. He was the ace of the legendary Orioles during their dynasty, compiling a 213-103 record in AA, which was then the highest classification. Joe Oeschger, of the legendary 26-inning duel, might be worth getting a card of. |
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Someone already mentioned that Bender shouldn't be on the original list (since he is in the HOF) and I will add that Bancroft is on the original list and is also in the HOF. As a replacement (although at a different position) here is Hal Trosky, who had some great years at first base with Cleveland in the 1930s, including 42/162/.343 in 1936. Despite leading the league in RBIs (and in total bases with 405) he did not make the All-Star team and finished 10th in MVP voting. Playing in the same era as Gehrig, Foxx, and Greenberg, Wikipedia says he is "widely considered one of the best players to never make an All-Star team".
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Tinker to Evers to Chance to.......how about Harry Steinfeldt
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What about Cy Seymour? He's the only player ever as a pitcher to lead a league in strikeouts and then also leads the league in hitting. Babe Ruth didn't even do that.
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Wes Ferrell is another one. He had one of the best all around seasons of all time in 1935; winning 25 games and batting 347. I always thought his contribution as a true two-way player has often been overlooked. he hit 280 over 15 years and it's not like he didn't get at bats either.
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How about Moe Berg? Not the greatest player but such an interesting story. Not too many cards. His rookie....
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"Indian" Bob Johnson - Is it PC to use that distinction anymore?
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Max Bishop
Wasn’t appreciated in his day, but was a base on balls machine who walked his way to a 423 career on base percentage and scored over 100 runs fours years in a row.
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I didn't see Shoeless Joe on the list. But he would be #1.
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Ginger Beaumont. He was a .311 career hitter and won a batting title in 1902. He'd probably be more well known if it wasn't for knee injuries limiting his playing ability and ending his career.
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Hi Tom I say DITTO to every thing you just said. https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...sonYoung25.jpg TED Z T206 Reference . |
Just wanted to follow up with you all on this. Thanks for the great recommendations. I had so much fun researching the players I wasn’t familiar with. I added the vast majority to my want list, which continues to grow rather than shrink.
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Depending on how far you want to go back, I would suggest Jim McCormick, Tony Mullane and Bobby Matthews, all great 1880's pitchers.
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I agree with Chief Meyers..
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A ton of negro leaguers
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like these guys
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Deacon Phillippe
Born in 1872, Deacon Phillippe grew up in the Dakota Territory outside the reach of pro talent evaluators. Undiscovered until after his family moved to Minnesota, Phillippe was almost 27 by the time he threw his first big league pitch. He reeled off 5 straight 20-win seasons to start his career.
To me he falls below Cooperstown line but he still had one heck of a career. Phillippe owns the the lowest lifetime walks-per-nine mark from 60'6". He posted six 20-win seasons, a .634 winning percentage, 242 complete games, and 189 big-league wins. He won the first World Series game in baseball history. Phillippe's 44 innings, 5 complete games, and three wins in the '03 tilt have yet to be topped. Had he broken in a few years earlier, he'd probably be in the Hall of Fame. Here's a link to cool story about him. There's an example of Pillippe's signature and a ball signed by 6 guys who played in the first World Series. |
My two choices would be Pete Browning and Jim Thorpe.
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Didn't see him in here
How about Lave Cross....21 Seasons played 2651H (78th best)
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Check out Nemec's books
I know I've used David Nemec's books as a source of inspiration for picking up Old Judge cards. They don't have to be stars or even semi-stars. Nemec has put forth a couple of evaluations of the Worst Player of the 19th Century. Or odd-ball things like left-handed catchers. Or just the picture itself - like Whitney with dog.
I would have added Lave Cross and Pete Browning to your list as well, but how about Billy Sunday or Gus Weyhing? |
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