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-   -   Restored T206 Wagner? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=279023)

Jobu 02-06-2020 07:02 PM

Restored T206 Wagner?
 
3 Attachment(s)
I came across the following 1962 publication with a Wagner on the front:

Attachment 384530

I thought perhaps it might be a "new" Wagner given the age of the publication, so I checked the T206 Resource's gallery (http://t206resource.com/Galleries.html) and it looks like card 12:

Attachment 384531

The corner wear is the same, the spot on the right border is the same, and the centering is the same. However, the apparent chunk missing out of the left is gone, the wear pattern on the left below that looks like it may have been repaired, and the apparent paper loss on the frame on the top border is no longer there. There may be a small difference on the bottom right edge as well:

Attachment 384532

I am curious to hear what people think.

ullmandds 02-06-2020 07:07 PM

yup...nice work! perhaps why it's in a GAI holder? Although I'm sure PSA would grade it!

BeanTown 02-06-2020 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1953323)
yup...nice work! perhaps why it's in a GAI holder? Although I'm sure PSA would grade it!

Haha +1

hcv123 02-06-2020 08:17 PM

Wow!
 
I wish I knew how to add a gif of shaking my head!! Will it ever end.........

pherbener 02-06-2020 09:07 PM

Good work Bryan. Based on the GAI holder I would assume the alteration happened a while ago.

Mark17 02-06-2020 09:16 PM

Publisher Charles Brooks, Associate Editor Frank Nagy. Frank had a Wagner so I'll bet this was his.

http://vendiamo.com/X/tsh.jpg

Copa7 02-06-2020 09:21 PM

Wouldn't be the first altered Wagner PSA would grade as perfect.

Great research. Thanks for this posting.

Collectorsince62 02-06-2020 10:15 PM

The back of the holder states "Frank Nagy Collection"

oldjudge 02-06-2020 11:57 PM

I’m not sure it is the same card. The dot in the right border appears bigger in the card on the right and the dot within the frame line on the left opposite the border damage is missing.

Mark17 02-07-2020 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1953366)
I’m not sure it is the same card. The dot in the right border appears bigger in the card on the right and the dot within the frame line on the left opposite the border damage is missing.

It is pictured on Frank Nagy's publication in 1962 and again in 1971. It is slabbed with the notation it is from Frank's collection. Did Frank have 2 of them that looked remarkably similar?

samosa4u 02-07-2020 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobu (Post 1953321)

However, the apparent chunk missing out of the left is gone

Because the original images are in black and white, it only looks like a chunk was missing at one time, however, it might only have been some thick stain. If you look at it, you'll see two dots next to it. One dot is on the white border and the other one is in the orange area. Those dots are now gone as well. A lot of times you can just remove these thick stains using a sharp object, such as a sewing needle. You have to slide the needle across the card surface, very slowly, and without pressing down too hard, and the chunks just break off.

Jobu 02-07-2020 10:47 AM

That is a good point, and I presented this as a question because I am not sure but wanted to see what people thought.

In the better image that Mark posted, the margins of that spot look pretty sharp, like maybe they actually are something on the card that was later removed.

And these images are all so bad that it is going to be hard to tell.

The spot on the top of the frame still looks like it was filled in though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u (Post 1953444)
Because the original images are in black and white, it only looks like a chunk was missing at one time, however, it might only have been some thick stain. If you look at it, you'll see two dots next to it. One dot is on the white border and the other one is in the orange area. Those dots are now gone as well. A lot of times you can just remove these thick stains using a sharp object, such as a sewing needle. You have to slide the needle across the card surface, very slowly, and without pressing down too hard, and the chunks just break off.


slightlyrounded 02-07-2020 11:53 AM

Left hand border has clearly been trimmed the whole way down...white border thinner in the GAI holder to even the naked eye. Can we all agree on this?

steve B 02-07-2020 12:18 PM

Probably not trimmed. Size is almost meaningless for T206s. They vary is size so much you can't go by that.

That edge doesn't look any different than the others. And the wear, which looks natural starts well down from the top left.

Mark17 02-07-2020 12:43 PM

This is an interesting discussion.

hcv123 02-07-2020 03:22 PM

Stuff was done to this card!
 
The spot at the top changed. The spot on the left changed.

I see where one could speculate that the left border appears trimmed (hell if it was good enough for the Gretzky McNall Wagner......)

My question is if the Slabbed card has the Nagy provenance - what was the chain of ownership from Nagy to the slab?

Bigdaddy 02-08-2020 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1953464)
Probably not trimmed. Size is almost meaningless for T206s. They vary is size so much you can't go by that.

That edge doesn't look any different than the others. And the wear, which looks natural starts well down from the top left.

Agreed, you can't go strictly by the size. But if you have before and after photos, then you could measure the relative sizes of the borders.

Enlarge both photos so the player image is the same size, then compare the borders.

2dueces 02-08-2020 08:39 AM

Looks like the same card but I’m not sure I would be turned off by the restoration if noted. I think it’s a beauty.

BeanTown 02-09-2020 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2dueces (Post 1953656)
Looks like the same card but I’m not sure I would be turned off by the restoration if noted. I think it’s a beauty.

"If" it's the same card, I would not consider trimming a part of restoration.

Leon 02-10-2020 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanTown (Post 1953980)
"If" it's the same card, I would not consider trimming a part of restoration.

Agree. Trimming might have been innocent back in the day but today it's a red flag (and rightfully so).


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