Autographed Card Sold As Is
 

I've been working for several years on an autographed 1963 Fleer baseball set. Having gotten pretty close to complete (62/66), I decided to work on autographed 1960 and 1961 Fleer sets.

I have mostly stuck to authenticated and slabbed cards, but recently a couple auctions came up for raw, signed 1960 Fleer. The autos looked close enough to authenticated signatures that I took a chance and I ended up winning both Ernie Lombardi and Dazzy Vance. Vance would be a great pickup since he died in February of 1961 and, thus, there was a small window to actually get the card signed. I am going to send it in for authentication, but had a question.

The seller clearly stated that he had bought a large collection and marked the cards as be sold as is, without a COA. I am assuming that, if the card does not pass authentication, I just end up just taking the loss and using it as a lesson to stick to be less exuberant and stick to previously authenticated card. Correct?

With winning the card for $42 delivered and $93 for authentication and shipping, it would be a coup if it is authenticated, but a painful experience if it isn't.

Do a PSA/DNA Quick Opinion

Will they do that for a completed auction? Already have the card in hand.

No clue lol

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Have someone send it in on this membership special for the month with one of their submissions. That will cut down shipping and your price.

*Correction: You can send it in yourself. You do NOT have to be a Collector's Club member to use the special.*

The above special posted has nothing to do with signed cards.


It would be $25 for a psa/dna dual grade submission plus 18 return shipping.

I'd try the quick opinion for 10$ Even though the auction has ended they may render an opinion.

Could you show the cards here as many people here could give you an opinion that IMO is as reliable as any TPA.
Regarding the wording of the auction, I still think it depends on the auction venue. If it fails authentication eBay will often give you back your money regardless of the wording in his auction unless he clearly states it's a reprint and being sold that way. If there is any hint he is intimating that it is real, I think eBay will side with you. I have no idea about other sites' policies.

Forget it. I found the Vance
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-Fleer-D...p2047675.l2557

Edit: After looking at his completed auctions you should return them immediately. He has sold soooooooooooooo many fakes it is ridiculous. I mean come on he sold a Tommy Connolly 3x5 for $65. Really? $65. This guy is the Coaches Corner of eBay

Agreed! Total garbage.

I am sorry to tell you that the Vance is not even close to bring good . Educate yourself about Vance's signature because it is very commonly forged for someone in the middle of the spectrum of HOFers autographs . Also I have never seen a Fleer card signed by Vance that was good .

OMG what a pile of crap.
OP how could you buy that crap. That is how these guys stay in business.

Jeff, here's the problem. When you find something that's hard to find to complete a project, you can (if you're not careful) want it to be real so badly that you'll find all kinds of excuses why the signer was "slightly off" that day. You always need to be dispassionate in these situations and look at the autograph critically. As has been said here multiple times, the Vance is garbage. I would try to get a refund, and if you can't, then chalk it up to a lesson learned. A real one may become available some day, so be ready with the funds and the research to allow you to confidently pull the trigger.

When you buy on ebay look at the sellers other items and if any look bad stay away from all to play it safe. Like the Greenberg ball and Kluszweski ball are awful that he has.

If it appears to good to be true, it probably is. I had a feeling I got out ahead of my skis on that one. I went ahead and submitted for a quick opinion on the two autos anyways since I figure it will be easier to request a refund/return with an official opinion.

I stayed pretty disciplined on 1963 Fleer, but that was easier since the subjects were contemporary players at the time. But 1960 and 1961 featured retired players, many for quite a long time. The risk is, obviously, higher and I should have stuck to my plan. Lesson learned.

Looks like you posted this as I was typing. You are absolutely right. I'll pursue a refund, though the listings are written such that he is maintaining plausible deniability and will likely fight it. I guess I can always drop negative feedback, though in 17 years on Ebay I've never done that.

Should not be hard to get a refund, even without the quick opinion. eBay will side with you the buyer 100%, you are well within the refund window.

Guilty as charged

Maybe I am in the minority here, but when you buy something that is specifically advertised as "no COA" and "sold as is" do you think it really is fair to try to return it? I mean, you knew what you were getting yourself into, right? He didn't sell it as "go on and have it authenticated at your cost, and if it comes back fake I will refund your money."

I mean, if more people try to return this stuff and open PayPal claims, etc., then maybe you discourage the bad guys from listing fake crap. But, I would not feel comfortable forcing a refund here if the guy won't give you one after you politely ask.

I would agree if this were a one-off from the seller. This particular seller, however, is only interested in selling garbage. My empathy would go out the window in cases such as this.

Of course, I wouldn't have gotten myself into such a situation in the first place, but that is beside the point.

Tom C

Well, that is why I asked. I've been on EBay since 2000 and never been in this situation. I am ready to take the loss even though this was nearly a full month of my hobby budget. Even if I end up eating my mistake, there is a follow on question regarding feedback. Does it follow the same logic, so no negative? Maybe neutral with text saying my purchases failed authentication? I am really curious how to proceed.

FWIW, I just got the quick opinion on the Lombardi. It is also "Likely Not Geniune."

No COA and sold as is are the scammers credo. Those words do not justify anything when a scammer is involved.
Get a refund, neg feedback this seller.

Agreed. If selling these types of items is your business you need to stand behind what you sell. If you know something is fake and you sell it as possibly real but "as is" then you are scamming.

Regardless of your responsibility as a buyer, he should give a refund and I would probably leave negative feedback (I have only done so a few times since 1998).

Joshua Van Pelt


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Before I have ever bought a raw signature that I was unsure of on ebay, I have always asked the seller "Will you accept a refund if the item does not pass authentication with PSA, SGC, Beckett, or JSA?" If the answer is no, I decide whether it is worth the risk, and either move forward knowing I am stuck with the item, or walk away. Going ahead and bidding or buying without confirming all of the risks is not the best way to proceed at the outset IMHO.

Agreed. In this instance however, since the seller is and has been selling nothing but forgeries, I wouldn't much care what proper etiquette might be. Anything that makes him squirm a little is fine by me.

Tom c

I get where you are coming from. I should accept responsibility for my mistake. That's fair. I guess I would follow up and ask you what responsibility is there to throw out some additional level of caveat emptor warning to other buyers? Something along the line of "Hey, he means it when he says "as is." Mine failed authentication."

Everything this guy sells is garbage. I thought about posting here a couple of weeks ago, but thought it was obvious. It's not often you see some of the garbage he forges because it's so common. Please people, use common sense or ask for more help.

"No COA" and "as is" and "no refunds" as it says in the boilerplate listing here is enough for me to understand "caveat emptor" and even "look, I didn't even bother sending it to PSA because I made it myself."

Here, I would still go ahead and pursue a refund, because I too like making bad people squirm. But, I do think you recognize that you shoulder some of the responsibility here.

I wouldn't request a refund; same as if I bought a washer/dryer on craigslist AS IS and they didn't work and had a family of possums living inside. You made the mistake of buying a card that was an obvious fake auto.

I would however give a negative. That will serve as a "warning" to someone in the future. There were plenty of red flags even before you got to looking at the pictures.

I don't understand the don't ask for a refund posts. eBay policy dictates that you are within your right to be refunded, so why wouldn't you get your refund? There is a very simple way for a seller to sell a card they don't know is authentic: don't claim the card was signed by the person. The auction description makes it clear that the seller is selling a card signed by Dazzy Vance "as is". The seller could have easily sold the card as a Fleer Vance with an unknown signature on it.

all of this. i'm guessing the people says no refund are not out there searching for and buying autographs every day and act like this is some sort of isolated incident. there's a whole subset of these scam sellers on ebay pumping out fakes day after day into the hobby and preying on the noob uneducated and silent majority who don't care.

they're just as bad as coach's corner, but even worse they have auctions every day for not even hof'ers but just common set guys. some of them are so good they even pass tpa's. they know exactly what they're doing as they've made a nice living on ebay for years. to accept this behavior and blame the victims for not knowing any better shows a lack of compassion and regard for this hobby. the apathy is disconcerting.