This 52 Mantle card really gets around
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401356587832...p2471758.m4704

https://goldinauctions.com/1952_Topp...-LOT25690.aspx

http://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/b...e?itemid=37204

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...Auction-120115

This is a 2nd Year Mantle -- Rookie is 51 Bowman

Rich

Pretty impressive.

01/16/2016 Memory Lane ("Empire State Collection" flip): $199,565 (includes BP)
10/02/2016 Goldin: $300,000 (includes BP)
02/27/2017 Heritage: $228,000 (includes BP)
07/09/2017 PWCC eBay: ???

If the BP is ~20%, and each successive consignor was the buyer at the last price, the first guy made $40K, the second guy lost $118K, and the third guy will only have to pay 8% or so to Brent as a BP.

[quote=rich klein;1676352]this is a 2nd year mantle -- rookie is 51 bowman

rich[/quote]

topps rookie

Can we call the '52 Topps Jackie Robinson's Topps rookie also, or do we have different rules for Mantle?

I guess there's different rules for Mantle...I do not understand this.

Anybody want to give me $250 for Nolan Ryan's Donruss rookie?

What's Mantle's Donruss rookie?

1983, but that's probably out of my budget.

I wonder how much buyers premium have been paid on 52 Mantles the past 5 years..10 million?

ebay
 

your forgetting one thing the $100 in Ebay Bucks winning bidder gets
which is probably less than he pays for Breakfast for him and his buddies at his private Golf Club.
These guys have millions of $$$ in excess cash burning a hole in their pockets . this card will most likley be doing the rounds again, till one of the high rollers decides to keep it for a while .Owning a High PSA Graded 52 Topps Mantle for a few hundred grand is not a big deal, to them any way.

200K on this card or 200k in the SPY etf, who is the winner in 15 years?

Yep. These are the b*stards who screwed the hobby up. Now thanks to them, 99% of people can't even afford these types of cards anymore. Oh, and by the way, do these super-rich guys even CARE about sports? I mean, if I was filthy rich, and I loved baseball, then I would at least KEEP this Mantle and ENJOY it for a few years, right?

If it wasn't for the crazy prices paid for cards, I don't think we'd still have an organized hobby. The crazy prices are what drove the hobby in the 80s and 90s and one of the reasons many of us joined the hobby (initially anyway). Not sure why there is such hate for people based solely on their economic means. I'm sure some are investing in baseball cards, but some I'm sure are also chasing the gorgeous cards they admired as kids. I sat down for breakfast with one of the wealthiest collectors I know, and we discussed our shared passions. Sure, he's buying the PSA 10s and I'm buying the PSA 1s. But, I'm not sure the grounds for being angry.

Asolutamundo!

Larry

Well put. So ridiculous.

topps rookie[/QUOTE]

No. First Topps card.

Regards,

Larry

The hobby is just maturing. The first $10,000,000 coin sold in 2012 and the ranks of 8-figure collectible cars are increasing rather quickly. Part of the maturation process is that some collectors will in fact be priced out of the market for the choicest material. To avoid being one of those, you have to be at or ahead of the cutting edge with regard to those cards that are going to blossom big time. The time for most of us to buy Cobb's toughest rookie post cards, for example, was 5+ years ago, when what I personally consider the silly debate about whether a postcard could be a baseball card was still going on. The time for buying the 1914 Baltimore News Ruth minor league schedule card was way back in 1989 (or before), when it came out of the chute at a penny-roll like $6,000. Cut through the slag and look for rare, significant, undervalued cards in the best condition you can find or afford. They are indeed out there. Then you'll stand a decent chance of being ahead of the cutting edge.

Being on the trailing edge, which is after one of those cards is "discovered" to fall into that category, is immensely more expensive.

May you always enjoy your collecting in any event,

Larry

Do we really need to have this mindless, endless debate every time someone calls the '52 Topps Mantle a RC?

I'm quite sure EVERYONE on this forum knows and understands this, and has their opinion. However, someone always has to chime in on this, like they're the only one who truly understands this great hobby conundrum, and feels compelled to enlighten everyone with their vast expertise.

Thank God someone understands that this post is about how this particular card gets sold frequently and wasn't intended to start a "ROOKIE" debate.

Oh no! I used the word God, did I just open up a "RELIGIOUS" can of worms.

The commoditization of baseball cards is a temporary phenomenon that began in the 1970s and in my opinion will end for the most part in the 2070's. There simply are too many cards and insufficient replacement of dying collectors. Cards are not art or coins. They do not have intrinsic value and are not created as one off expressions. Like stamps, which have already gone through this process, the ultra valuable with remain so, but 95 percent of the rest will be worth pennies on the dollar. The mantle will always be valuable, but how many 16 year olds right now will desire one at those prices upon entering adulthood? I'd love one, having been a collector, but at 35, I have no interest in spending that sort of money, nor can I, on a piece of cardboard of which there are many copies.

As I tell out-of-the-hobby folks at the shows I set up at, if you look at the hobby as "spending" the money on cards it can be seen as a waste and indulgence. However, if done the smart way, they can be an investment and part of any portfolio. And in 2070 I will be 109 yrs old and hopefully not still typing at this keyboard nor worrying about the value of my cards. :)

The 1952 Topps is not a Rookie Card and every time we call it as such as perpetuate that fallacy.

I say that, as a person who talked to literally hundreds of reporters and radio personalities over the years back in my Beckett days. We always try to be careful, state facts and correcting incorrect perceptions is part of what I did. As this card is not a Rookie Card. I did not have any problems saying what I did.

There is nothing wrong with correcting an incorrect fact. I have made plenty of errors in posting, it's part of the nature. And how many times on this board do we go into a different tangent before getting back to the point at hand. It's not a rookie card, that is no big deal,

it's still an expensive card! A BIGLY expensive card!


Rich

Why bother
 

why do people bother collecting any thing , basically its a hobby , some times it turns into a passion , some times it turns into an addiction ,
some times people collect for what to them seems like sound investment reasons some times they pan out some times they don't.
There are thousands of worse things that you can spend disposable income on and not have anything to show for it. Spending $1000s on a piece of cardboard may seem stupid to many people, but thats the beauty of collecting there is always some one who will appreciate what you have and share their enthusiasm with you. Bottom line it a hobby have fun with it.
if you have the money to buy higher priced items then good luck to you.
if you rather spend money on "Wine Women and Song" or anything else then go for it.

People get too hung up on whether or not this card is his rookie card or not. Fact is the 51 Bowman is his true rookie card, and the 52 Topps is his first Topps card...all that aside, the 51 Bowman cannot touch the importance, popularity and level of icon status, that the 52 Topps embodies. Whether it's called a rookie or a cookie...people know what they're buying.

true dat!

Houston, we have a problem. This discussion just got complicated. If we call a 52 Mantle a cookie, what do we call this?....

Attachment 278725

or for that matter this?....

Attachment 278726

But that's not all, how about....

Attachment 278727

and

Attachment 278728

If Wilson is the A Mookie, would Betts be the B Mookie?

Chronologically, in the Cookie case, Lavagetto would be the A Cookie, but now you want to call Mantle the B Cookie instead of Rojas who is a true Cookie. Oy vey. Calling Mantle a C Cookie seems demeaning and I'm not buying it.

And that's just the beginning,

Where does this guy fit in

Attachment 278729

or this this one

Attachment 278730

If Mickey is a Cookie, what do you call a Nookie?:D

but i digress

The 51 Mantle is the Rookie

The 52 Mantle should not the Cookie (A, B or C)

Maybe we should just call the 52 Mantle a Wookie Card.




















Attachment 278731

Nope, that won't work either.:eek::confused::D

..

.

Well said.

And not to be forgotten.

Where does this Snooki one fit in?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ht-my-mets.jpg

As to the Op topic-- I don't look at 8's 9's or 10's in those cards. I keep it at a minimum in the low grades 1-3 to keep track records.
It just amazed how many times it flipped. Wouldn't a card like that be in a PC- personel collection. I know mine is and its low grade.
People with $$$, just making more $$$.

,,

I'm not sure the escalating prices are what makes things great. There are many pure collectors who would love to see a more relaxed hobby without the super-competitiveness we have now. I'm certainly not angry at the people who spend big money on cards, but I would be very happy with a smaller and less expensive hobby.

And I don't believe all the publicity the industry gets is such a great thing either. Just offering a different viewpoint. To each his own.

Wow! You seriously had scans of all those cards at your fingertip just for this post! That's impressive!!!

My Man Frank iS A "VerY ImPreSSiVe GuY!"
Frank Can Even Locate the Post War and Modern Sides of THiS Site ~

MoST of Us PreWar Guys Wouldn'T Know
A "B 52 Bronx Bomber" iF iT Landed oN Us!

"BRiLLiANT WoRK Frank!!!" :)

Where does this Snooki one fit in?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ht-my-mets.jpg

IsN'T She the Runner~uP iN the Nathan's Hot Dog EatiN Contest?

Tookie went to my high school. Nice to see him making an appearance on the forum

want in on the ookie fun...

https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/im...C796&width=768

This seemed appropriate at this point:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps5n7j56io.jpg

^^ HA! Was thinking the same thing, Jeff. :)

Wow
 

Wow, Leon you need to start a semantics/bitching thread.

Yuck, Yuck. Now that's a good one! Never mind that the trend has been quite consistently exactly the other way for nearly 50 years. And the first coin that sold for $10,000,000? A 1794 silver dollar graded Mint State 66 by PCGS in January, 2013. I haven't checked the value of silver per ounce lately, but the "intrinsic value" had to be what? $10,00? $20.00 max? Not terribly rare, either, if you're not that concerned with condition--140 examples estimated to have survived, with very nice examples apt to grade Fine to Very Fine. That same coin, in extremely fine, was valued at $25,000 in 1980, $125,000 in 2003, and $150,000 in 2005--maybe a trend--heavens, even a collectible trend--at work? Maybe other truly classic collectibles might be susceptible to those very same trends??? Maybe it might have something to do with history, since the 1794 dollar was the first coin of that denomination made by the very, very young country, the United States? Wow! Hold it in your hand (in its' PCGS holder, of course) and perhaps, just perhaps, it takes you back to the early, historic days of America itself? Perhaps you can feel a connection to people like Benjamin Franklin, George Washington and others that were alive and moved in real time through that small, round slug of silver? Maybe people even like history? Have you ever seen shows like "American Pickers," Pawnstars," or Antiques Roadshow?" OF COURSE THEY DO!

Do you really think that collectors that buy 2.5 million dollar '71 Hemi 'Cuda convertibles (11 made, making it the king of all 426 Hemi muscle cars) actually do so for their "intrinsic value," i.e., to drive? Somehow I doubt it. An occasional cruise around the block or so to keep everything lubricated (gaskets and seals dry out otherwise), but that's about it. No, it's a collectible, one that takes them back to the HISTORIC days of the first great muscle car era (though towards the end of that era) and likely one that will continue to appreciate IMHO for quite awhile. More and more classic cars are moving into the 7 and even 8 figure bracket, just within the last year or two. Why? Because they are pieces of HISTORY that take these collectors back to the interests and days that they treasure and cherish!

In case you haven't noticed, many areas of collectibles are growing, and growing now even more rapidly due to the internet (even the rarest items will ultimately, inevitably show up on ebay). Oh, but the sky is falling, the sky is falling--but just not now; wait until 2070! This field of collecting is based on a fundamental element of human nature, and for that reason, I highly doubt it.

As to the failure to replace dying collectors, I believe the most recent surveys regarding the average age of our own board members have shown that age to be DECREASING, not increasing. And if you've been to a National lately, you likely will have seen the hoards of younger people--sure, they'll start out with Harper and Trout, or maybe Kershaw or Scherzer, but inevitably, many, many will move on to Gehrig, Ruth, Mantle, Williams, Cobb, Wagner, Johnson, Grove, Foxx, etc., etc. People simply LIKE baseball, and a certain percentage are interested in its HISTORY. Of those that are, cards are the perfect tangible gateway to it--almost like time travel, they connect you to the player, and take you back to the time. Through vintage cards, you truly can hold the HISTORY of the game right in your hands!

The quote above sounds like sour grapes to me, just as another post did--oh, woe is me! The market is moving on, and leaving me behind. Well, wealthy people like various fields of HISTORY too! They can buy the best, and they will. Just my $10.50 worth.

Larry

You really need to stop being so shy Larry...

Happy 4th to all!

My only contrary thought to Larry's rant is about the average age of N54 users. If the older generation is dying off, then of course the average age will start to skew younger.

I'm surprised that Cookie Gilchrist and his Cadillac that had "Lookie looked here comes Cookie" written on the hood did not make an appearance in that post. :D

Anywhere she wants.

I really don't see where Larry's rant directly addresses my point. My point is NOT about the most valuable or desirable collectibles and their prices but about the rising tide lifting all boats. How are price trends over the last 50 years on big little books? Hopalong Cassidy collectibles? Of course the best of all collectibles will rise over time with the market. But what about those crazy prices on 1986 topps Ryne Sandberg, or some obscure issue like a hocus focus? I believe that over time, as the generation that buys out of nostalgia dies out the replacement collectors will value things differently. That's all I said. My other point was that intrinsic value sets a hard floor, i.e. Silver dollars don't drop below melt value, something cards don't have. I am happy with my collection and my budget. No sour grapes here. When I was younger (I'm 35 now) a lot of my friends collected. I'm the only one who still does, and I'm a casual collector. Maybe using the National and a baseball card forum is not the best indicator of the proportion on collectors in relation to the general population.


Post edited due to my own obnoxiousness.

Sorry I got a little carried away, and didn't mean to offend anyone. But I am a devoted student of several collectible markets, including coins and cars, and the markers here clearly point away from one with limited staying power, and towards one that will indeed be here for a very, very long time, with regard to truly classic items (I did not state nor imply that everything will simply keep going up. There is a great deal of difference between collectibles of true rarity and significance, and those bearing the earmarks of only a fad, an interest here today and gone tomorrow--tulipmania, anyone?). Perhaps another marker of the enormous growth in the hobby, one indisputably reflective of the general population, may be seen in the evolution of REA's catalogs. Back in the early '90's, they were an insert in Sports Collector's Digest comprised of 4-8 pages of yellow news print quality paper. Now, they are made up of six to seven hundred pages of the best, glossiest stock available.

I made reference to the coin market because it became organized as a hobby 120 years before ours did, and it has gone through most or all of the same trends. There is, I believe, quite an analogy to be drawn between the two. Third-party grading came into coins in the mid to late '80's, then made its way to cards (PCGS in coins and PSA in cards are owned by the same entity). It took some time before die variations in coins were truly appreciated for their rarity, just as it has with different backs or other variations in cards (no one collected rare-back T206's in the late '80's or early '90's; or if they did, it certainly was an aspect of collecting which received little to no publicity whatsoever--a Cy Young portrait was a Cy Young portrait, period). In coins, even the different mint marks didn't matter until the 1860's. A coin of a particular date was valued just the same if created at the Philadelphia mint as the Denver mint, etc. Then collectors came to realize that issues of a given year from one mint were significantly rarer than those of another, and values rose accordingly. From there, other variations began to be appreciated, including die variations--perhaps one die featured a closed wreath on its reverse, while another was open, or one had more stars along the edges than the other, and if one variation between the two was extremely rare, its value came to reflect that fact. Now the rarest T206 backs are appreciated in just the same way as rare die variations or rare mint marks in coins. My point is that, like coin collecting, this is a market that has staying power (coin collecting in this country began in the early 1800's)--it's not going to magically disappear in 2070 or so. People collect HOF'ers now and they will continue to do so, as those players were and are reflective of the most significant parts of of the game's history. One point cannot be overstated: many people not only like history, but are quite passionate about the particular field of it that they are drawn to. Because they like it, because they are passionate about it, they will continue to collect it. That passion, in both the coin and car collecting field, is being passed down from generation to generation. Just because you are the only one of your childhood friends that has continued to collect, that doesn't mean the hobby is dying--it only reflects a very, very small sample size; a microscopic one in the larger picture.

Just as Leon put together a truly remarkable type collection (perhaps the greatest one the hobby will ever see), coin collectors put type collections together now and will continue to do so. Certainly card collectors will continue to form type collections in cards (although I doubt others will have the determination and drive to achieve success on the level Leon did--you'd have to literally live it and breathe it!).

I guess my main point is that this hobby is simply not going to bite the dust in the next decade, the one after that, or likely not even in the next century. As long as there is baseball, there will be those with a passionate interest in its history. And a card is the embodiment of that history. It is truly a two-dimensional moment in a player's life and career, created and preserved contemporaneously (for the most part) with that very real moment in his life. The most basic attraction of the vintage card is that it does in fact connect you to the player, and take you back to that time! In this sense, cards most definitely DO HAVE INTRINSIC VALUE, although it is intangible and psychological in nature. They have it in a way that pictures taken long ago, but published in a relatively new book, can never, ever have.

Just my $28.75 worth.

May collecting bring you the joy of holding the game's very history, right there in your hands. What you have is in fact a treasure of the past!

Larry

I don't think the hobby is going anywhere either, I think we're both speaking to an evolution in these markets. I enjoy the discussion and have a tendency towards opinionated beliefs. That's why I come here. No offense taken. I certainly hope the market stays strong as much as anyone, but I do worry about things like crazy prices on low pop commons and the massive amount of newer era stuff out there.