Help appreciated determining if this is an original or a copy
 

Edit: Thanks for the responses.

To this point I have been unable to determine if it is a copy or an original through the glass. The question now is if I try to get a refund from the person I bought it from, or the open frame and make a better determination, but then if it is a copy I will have a much harder time returning it since it will not be in the same condition I purchased it in.

Thanks!

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Hey all,

I picked this up from a seller who said he bought it from a Twins charity auction and it is an original lineup card. When I received it the card looked good so I had not second thoughts, but a buddy messaged me informing me that copies were made, some of which people may be passing on as original. (Link to a listing of a copy below).

My question is how to distinguish between a copy and an original. I looked at the copy I have under the light and it definitely did not look like it was printed as the ink seems to vary like a pen would, and there are areas where the pen seems to have given out and you can still see a mark.

If anyone can help with determining this item (not sure if the pictures will be big enough) to let me know ways that I can better tell I would really appreciate it.



https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...t_qual=&closed

Without seeing it in hand, it is hard to tell. But the Hunt auction says there were 777 copies made, so the fact that there is only one original and 777 copies out there put the odds heavily in the corner that this is one of those 777.

Thanks for the response.

The listing does indicate that they were numbered out of 777. The picture in the auction is vague but it seems like it is numbered on the front under the Indians available pitchers, and that is not the case on my copy so hoping that is not the case.

What would I be looking for as signs it is either real or copied?

Wouldn't there usually be an MLB hologram numbered sticker on an authentic lineup card?

If there are no indentations from pen writing on the line up card then it is a copy.

Not sure they were as careful to have holograms on things back then though don't know.

It's really hard to tell through the glass. The writing seems to have been with a fairly soft tipped marker, so not sure how much indentation there would be, and through the glass I can't tell.

If anyone has any other thoughts please let me know. Thanks!

There is no way to tell through a scan. You need to take it out of the frame and determine if the ink is "on top" of the card, or part of the card. Given all the writing and ink dots all over the card, it should be really easy to tell in-hand if it is live ink or printed.

I would assume, without a dot matrix pattern (which a copy might have-- look under close magnification), the 'handwriting' ink would be solid throughout in a copy, while in real handwriting will change in ink density/tone throughout.

Hey all,

Thanks for the responses.

To this point I have been unable to determine if it is a copy or an original through the glass.

My question now is: I have 2 options. I can try to get a refund from the person I bought it from, or I can try and open it and make a better determination but then if it is a copy I will have a much harder time returning it since it will not be in the same condition I purchased it in.

Any advice?

Thanks!

Is there something that would keep you from putting the frame back together?

Pretty sure the seller would use that as a reason to not take the item back, though not sure.

How would you even be able to tell? All you'd be doing is opening the frame and then closing it. To me that's no different from taking a card out of a screw down and putting it back in, no?

Honestly I'm not sure since I've never done this before. There's some paper covering on the back that I would probably have to rip off but it may be as simple as that...

The paper can be re-done at any frame shop for minimal cost.

I compared this to another lineup card that I knew was authentic. I didn't open up the frame so there were some limits but here is what I learned:

1) The markers they use do not make an indentation

2) Some of the markers can be seen through the paper in the real copy (in a copied one I imagine this would not the case)

3) The giveaway for me was interestingly white-out. Many lineup cards have an area that was whited-out. On a copy there are faded sections but obviously the white-out itself does not copy.

Hope people find this helpful.