1914 White Sox & Giants @ Vatican POSTCARD - More Player ID's?
 

This is in regards to the 1914 Chicago White Sox & New York Giants @ Vatican City postcard. I know this has been a popular postcard for awhile, and that Charles Comiskey & John McGraw have been identified, but I thought we might be able to get a few more, thanks to a method I found of using a digital camera with a very high end loupe...

The main question, is: "Could the white haired gentleman actually be Kenesaw Mountain Landis?" It sounded crazy when I first thought that, but I learned that, at this time, he was constantly attending White Sox games, about to manage the Federal League (I just assumed his first baseball position was after the Black Sox scandal). I found references to Landis immersing himself in baseball at this time, probably knowing he would be helping run the Federal League.

Other closeups...
 

Here are the other players - I recognize George Wiltse, Mike Donlin, and of course McGraw & Comiskey.

see Elfers, Tour to end all tours
 

Elfers book on the Tour may be helpful. (sorry no longer have it). I believe Speaker and Germany Schaeffer are next to one another, and Jimmy McAleer is at the end of the row in the tan long coat.

not Landis
 

Sorry, I should have added that i do not think that is Landis.

weaver
 

Weaver top row, top hat, i think.

Sam Crawford next to Wiltse.

Tom C

Thorpe
 

Might be Thorpe, second row from top, in top hat, facing sideways.

Wow - good eyes! I can't get to it right now, but I will try to get better images of the Weaver, Thorpe, Crawford, etc. possibilities. I completely overlooked the top hat guy turned to the side, but man, it does appear to be Thorpe.

Ed Walsh?

Hi Mike,
FWIW, I don't believe that this image is Big Ed Walsh.

If not Walsh, may be Donlin.

Ted Sullivan
 

Man behind Comisky's left shoulder, maybe Ted Sulluvan. Smaller man in glasses on far left looks like sportswriter Abe Yaeger, not sure wether or not he was on trip.

I thought Walsh at first, too, but I think that one is Mike Donlin?

Better Pics of Weaver, Thorpe, etc.
 

Thorpe

Weaver

Speaker

Ray Schalk?

Rube Marquard? (bottom right)

Don't forget Sam Crawford seated next to Hooks.

Tom C

Germany Schaeffer
 

On Speaker's left is Schaeffer, I believe. Also pretty sure about Sulluvan.

1914 WSox/NYG Vatican PC
 

I'm personally pretty sh!tty on player IDing things, but just wanted to say that's a *great* postcard.

DS

J. Louis Comiskey son of Charles Comiskey ..3rd from left front row..Would take over the club in 1931.

Pitcher Red Faber

Lee Magee on the Giants team for the tour.

Pitcher Joe Benz

Jimmy Callahan White Sox manager

Pitcher Bunny Hearn

Fred Merkle

Yes, I agree - sorry, I just forgot to get a new individual closeup of him.

Thanks! I do think it is Ted Sullivan, as well. At first I thought possibly Billy Sullivan (who may have been on the trip, too), but I think the guy in the pic looks too old, so Ted sounds right.

Forgot about Schaefer. Although I was mostly interested in HOFers or Black Sox, at this point it is just a fun project and I will compile (and post) as complete of a list of everyone (by rows) as possible.

Ha! Right there with you. Honestly, I was just pulling a few items to sell for bills, and since I had the really nice Regula Ltd Powered Loupe, I thought I'd see if anyone else was on it. As far as I know, only Comiskey and McGraw have ever been identified, probably because you just can't make all the people out without this loupe. But now that the helpful peeps on Net54 have helped identify Weaver, Thorpe, Crawford, Speaker, etc., I really don't want to part with this - LOL!

No it's Jim Scott.

No, right of Shafer is Tom Daly

No, it's Steve Evans.

Not sure who that is but it's not Thorpe.

It is Donlin, not Walsh.

Bottom right of bottom photo in post #2 is Jimmy McAleer.

Just left of the guy who isn't Landis in post #1 is Bill Klem.

Mark: (bmarlowe1) your "talent" is incredible - don't want you looking for/at ME in a lineup!

well done!

DS

hopefully, should you HAVE to part with it, somebody will send some good $$$ your way.

once again, great piece - while unaware of your immediate financial needs, if faced with a similar dilemma,
I'd personally go out of my way to part with several (or numerous) lower-end items and keep this particular gem!

best of luck.

DS

Walt Leverenz between Benz and Faber (directly above Bill Klem).

Hans Lobert

Jack Bliss

Could be catcher Andy Slight

William Buhl a Chicago brewer

Curious why you don't think so? Other than Comiskey and McGraw, this is one of the ones I actually feel most confident about.

The photos sure look close to me... Not to stereotype, but the facial features appear most certainly to be Native American, and in particular, Thorpe's eyes, nose, and the large "crease/wrinkle" to the left of his nose are very distinguishable on all the pictures I find from that era. And I am unaware of any other person of Native American descent who could have been on the tour?

Another postcard and composite photo from the same month and year (a mid-Feb. game in Nice, France) identifies Thorpe with the 1913-14 World Baseball Tour team. They arrived in Italy on Feb 7th, and this game in Nce was about one week later, so it would seem highly likely that my postcard was taken just a few days prior to France, at the Vatican, and Thorpe would have been there.

http://www.vintageball.com/1913-14Tour.html

The ear shape does not match, therefore your guy can't possibly be Thorpe.

I'll add that your guy has a slightly turned up nose - Thorpe does not, and your guy's chin is way too small.

I have never seen an image of Thorpe for which it is not immediately obvious that it's him. Really this is not close.

while it's certainly "Thorp(e)ian" at first glance, I'd personally defer to BMarlowe1's knowledge...

JMO.

DS

Frank McGlynn Sr. was an actor and was on the trip.