Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532561)

I thought they didn't enter the cert numbers in their database on cards with questionable authenticity?

Originally Posted by nat (Post 1532602)

Who is it, exactly, that buys this junk? Is there actually someone who thinks that they can scoop up a T206 Wagner for $34 on eBay? And if the people bidding on this do think it's real, why on Earth did 23 of them get topped by a $34 bid? And if they know it's fake, why did they bid at all?

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532608)

Again, PSA has to share some of the blame too. The word questionable leaves room for hope. It should not be labeled as questionable authenticity.

Originally Posted by MetsBaseball1973 (Post 1532626)

Dude, you are really stretching it to try and throw shade at PSA for this. If someone sees the leading TPG flat out refused to grade something and called it "Questionable Authenticity," and still that someone wants to buy said thing, thinking it's real, that is squarely and solely on them and their idiocy.

Originally Posted by begsu1013 (Post 1532643)

psa's fault?

please.

1. it says ? authen.
2. it's not holdered.
3. the cert isn't verifiable.
4. just an opinion anyways.

if you need more than that, let me show you this oceanfront compound in arizona for a steal.

the post office says no such address found, it doesn't have a pin number, walls or even a roof....

but there is a sign in the yard that says "? ocean front" in the picture.

a fool and his money...

Originally Posted by Joshwesley (Post 1532549)

Gotta admit.... They did a good job with the slab.
Lol

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963 (Post 1532583)

Hmmm, didn't know that. I looked up the flip # as well and it came back unknown, so thought something was amiss. If it's known there wasn't a T206 Wagner w/BroadLeaf back (or so I would gather from others feedback), why wouldn't PSA note it as a reprint/fake then? Instead of questionable authenticity.

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1532656)

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the listing. There is no BS story saying it could be real. It is a hell of a lot better than someone listing a card as ExMint or NrMint when the card is in a Authentic holder, to me that is trying to deceive someone.

Originally Posted by Bored5000 (Post 1532665)

What part of the auction title "1909-11 T206 BROADLEAF CIGARETTES HONUS WAGNER" should be taken as not "saying it could be real?" The word "reprint" is not listed anywhere in the auction, but that's not a sketchy attempt to get people to think the card is real?

Edd*e Sm*th

Originally Posted by MetsBaseball1973 (Post 1532626)

Dude, you are really stretching it to try and throw shade at PSA for this. If someone sees the leading TPG flat out refused to grade something and called it "Questionable Authenticity," and still that someone wants to buy said thing, thinking it's real, that is squarely and solely on them and their idiocy.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532671)

What part of the authenticity do you think was questionable to PSA? Was it the card stock? The font? The ink? The fact that there's no way the Wagner could have been printed with a Broad Leaf back?

Or do you think they should have labeled it what it actually is (a reprint)?

The fact that they refuse to label it for what it is makes them somewhat responsible for this.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532561)

I thought they didn't enter the cert numbers in their database on cards with questionable authenticity? The flip is absolutely real. And shame in PSA for even labelling it as questionable (as if there is a chance) authenticity.

Originally Posted by ZachS (Post 1532720)

Originally Posted by begsu1013 (Post 1532725)

the reason psa labels it "? authen" is due to liability.

had the flip said "complete fake", guy turns around, sells the thing for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card psa would be on the hook for some serious cash.

"? oceanfront" in arizona.

Originally Posted by begsu1013 (Post 1532725)

had the flip said "complete fake", guy turns around, sells the thing for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card psa would be on the hook for some serious cash.

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532743)

There is zero profit and a ton of liability in identifying fakes.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532745)

Bob, let's use your example and tweak it a little bit. Guy has a card and the flip says "altered". He sells it for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card. Would PSA still be on the hook for some serious cash because they mis-graded it the first time?

How can they state a fact (altered, trimmed, re-colored) on one aspect of the card, but only give an opinion (questionable authenticity) on another aspect of a card? It's either altered or it isn't. It's either authentic or it isn't. Authenticity is a black/white issue. There is no gray area.



Wrong! PSA still charges the SAME grading fee whether a card is deemed authentic with a numerical grade or it's rejected for questionable authenticity.

Questionable Authenticity is nothing more than an excuse for incompetency. If your next door neighbor brought you that card for your opinion, would you tell him that it's "questionable authenticity" or would you say, "It's a fake?"

Edited to add: This is from their website: "Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) is the largest and most trusted third-party grading and authentication company in the world."

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532745)

Bob, let's use your example and tweak it a little bit. Guy has a card and the flip says "altered". He sells it for $1 to another collector, only to be resubmitted and have it turn out to be a million dollar card. Would PSA still be on the hook for some serious cash because they mis-graded it the first time?

How can they state a fact (altered, trimmed, re-colored) on one aspect of the card, but only give an opinion (questionable authenticity) on another aspect of a card? It's either altered or it isn't. It's either authentic or it isn't. Authenticity is a black/white issue. There is no gray area.



Wrong! PSA still charges the SAME grading fee whether a card is deemed authentic with a numerical grade or it's rejected for questionable authenticity.

Questionable Authenticity is nothing more than an excuse for incompetency. If your next door neighbor brought you that card for your opinion, would you tell him that it's "questionable authenticity" or would you say, "It's a fake?"

Edited to add: This is from their website: "Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA) is the largest and most trusted third-party grading and authentication company in the world."

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532749)

I disagree. They charge the fee for their time. They cannot, completely establish with out being there when the card was printed that its an absolute fake without risking the liability that it entails. Why risk it? Second, I don't charge for my opinion and I am not liable by law to give him an absolutely correct answer. PSA is and won't put the company in a bind when it doesn't have to

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1532753)

whatever!!!! if psa doesnt know that a t206 wagner only exists with sweet caporal or piedmont backs...and that a t206 wagner with a broad leaf back isn't fake...they're worthless!

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532749)

They cannot, completely establish with out being there when the card was printed that its an absolute fake without risking the liability that it entails.

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532756)

:rolleyes:l

As a banker, when I decide against a loan, I never tell the client that there is zero chance anyone will give them a loan no matter how bad their situation is. I simply state that I won't give them the loan. PSA is simply stating that they will not authenticate that card. Whose to say some crack pot basement grading service won't authenticate it??

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1532753)

whatever!!!! if psa doesnt know that a t206 wagner only exists with sweet caporal or piedmont backs...and that a t206 wagner with a broad leaf back isn't fake...they're worthless!

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1532761)

Well then I guess our perspectives are quite different!

When a patient is in my chair and they have some retained roots from a molar that broke decades ago and are concerned about saving the tooth...I have no qualms telling them there is ZERO chance the tooth can be saved. I am confident in my knowledge and abilities and I live in reality!

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532764)

You and I know that most card collectors don't live in reality! JK.

Do you have malpractice insurance? Of course!! Are you going to take a chance when you don't have too? Of course not!

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532756)

As a banker...?

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532767)

Mr. Banker, if I were to walk into your bank with some bills you knew to be counterfeit and try and deposit them, would you tell me the bills are fake and confiscate them from me or would you tell me their authenticity is questionable and give them back to me?

Just curious?

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1532765)

Ok...But where is the iota of a chance this card could be real here?

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532777)

Not a chance.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1532767)

Mr. Banker, if I were to walk into your bank with some bills you knew to be counterfeit and try and deposit them, would you tell me the bills are fake and confiscate them from me or would you tell me their authenticity is questionable and give them back to me?

Just curious?

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1532781)

ok...so where is the risk to precious PSA.

Originally Posted by Pilot172000 (Post 1532785)

Its blanket risk and more than likely a blanket policy for PSA when it comes to fake cards. You are assuming that all cards they refuse to authenticate are this cut and dry. For those of us dedicated enough to post online day in and day out about cardboard photographs of dead people we never actually met, its very obvious that these cards are fake. There must be some kind of market for them, since 90% of what you see when you type Broadleaf into the search box on ebay is fake.