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Ty Cobb not the monster many have made him out to be?
http://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/who-wa...w-thats-wrong/
Interesting article about the many myths of Ty Cobb. |
We had a thread a couple of months ago about Leerhsen's bio of Cobb and Tim Hornbaker's, which came out at the same time. The discussion was spirited and interesting, including some back and forth about why Sam Crawford hated Cobb so much, and lots more:
http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217919 |
Cobb was very misunderstood.
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The book is a great read, eliminating a lot of the BS found in the movie.
Regards, Larry |
Al Stump wrote a book that makes Cobb look like a psychopath. 90% lies. The movie is ridiculous, but entertaining. I believe Cobb was a racist and a difficult person to get along with, but he wasn't Satan! That book is such bullshit. He didn't rave at people and shoot his pistol in the hospital. A nurse who took care of him in his final days denies that. He was actually a model patient and signed baseballs for her. He gave to charities and gave money to former ball players down on their luck. He was a conflicted person, but no monster!
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I think Cobb was hyper competitive and never made a point to be one of the good ole boys. He was a southerner which immediately made him an outsider and he like most southerners made it personal. Was he a racist? Who wasn't in that era? They were all bigots in one form or fashion. They hated the Irish, the Chinese and any other minority that didn't fit into the mold.
I think that he did everything in absolutes, no grey areas and that is how it is. As a kid I had the movie on VHS and I watched it over and over. It's how I learned who Tris Speaker, Nap Lajoie and Mickey Cochrene were. Stump lied his a$$ off to make a small fortune off of someone else's name and unfortunately it stuck. |
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I don't like Kobe because he's a rapist ahole. His hyper-competitive nature has nothing to do with it. Michael Jordan was the most competitive basketball player I've ever seen. He beat my Bucks like a drum, and it never bothered me one bit. Kobe is a scum bag, and I'd happily say it to his face.
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Heard rumors that the reason Jordan left the NBA was to avoid gambling allegations. Serve a multi-year suspension or make it appear as if your focus is elsewhere. Saves face for both Jordan and the NBA.
Also ironic is that his father was found murdered around this time. |
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and he would beat you like a rented mule. |
Didn't he beat up a crippled heckler?
So he was basically Ron Artest, but with a crippled veteran. |
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-James Steele |
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I have no doubt Leerhsen tried to be accurate and honest with his book but is awfully hard to give much credibility to a baseball author who would write nonsense like this: "another time turned a tap back to the pitcher into an inside-the-park home run". I mean, c'mon.
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Back to the task at hand. There are countless talented people who seem to put the game, work or whatever else over personal relationships with others. It's not uncommon. What is uncommon is the fact that Cobb was so talented and stood above all others during the dead all era that no one received nearly the amount of scrutiny that has and does. Compare his list of books to any other and you will find him to be the most investigated player during the Pre-War Era not named Ruth.
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Ruth
Babe Ruth was no perfect dude - married but had mistresses. And probably even a child or two from mistresses- I think he adopted one. Late night partying with games the next day. How responsible is that? Ahh, can't be, we all love Ruth, right! Sometimes easy to sweep aside certain things with certain people, and hammer other dudes.
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Leo Durocher sure doesn't seem to speak too highly of Cobb, and check out the still in the vid shortly after he says that.:eek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfcW7yYFhqk |
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As for that still image, the catcher in question actually defended Cobb, said he was going for the ball - and got it. |
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Would that be acceptable in today's game? Not likely, but I know things were different then. I personally have no idea, one way or another, if the horror stories we were told about Cobb are true, but when you hear from past ball players speak about him, I think they carry some merit about what they say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh_kerKBBMw Not sure how long this story, the good and bad about Cobb, has been going on, but I think like any rumor/tale/story, it will be debated to death with no real conclusion ever to be found. |
Again, nothing much in that clip about Cobb being awful other than repeating the falsehood about the sharpened spikes.
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The Utley rule at second base the Posey rule at home. These guys now make MILLIONS $$ they know full well what they're signing up for and with those MILLIONS they can afford doctors (although they're provided by the teams now) let alone how it was. Players didn't make anything compared to now and had no benefits. The richer the players get the more pampered they get and for some reason unknown to me, a wide variety of people embrace it. Flag Football. Sorry I'm no Rachel Phelps but jesus you can't slide hard into second anymore. You can't trample over the catcher anymore. We now have "challenges". http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2...s_rays_ut.html It's good to see at least one manager has spoken out in a way. |
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I hear what you are saying, and I miss old time hockey, but with the current batch of lawsuits due to concussions and after hearing these guys speak who's careers were cut short (never mind the suicides) it has opened my eyes big time! I know ball is a far cry from hockey as far as injuries go, but it was only a matter of time before ball, and all other sports, were looked at and changed due to ongoing injuries. Just hope they can do something with all the theatrics in soccer as I might actually watch a game every now and then. :D |
interesting
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Cobb
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Actually if you listen to the audio version of "The Glory of..." they have 5-6 interviews with Cobb's teammates - and almost all defend him regarding the sharpening of spikes issue. One teammate - perhaps it was Davey Jones - indicated Cobb even approached the Commish about outlawing sharpened spikes. In the interview, teammates indicate Cobb did not want to be portrayed in that fashion. However, another written source indicates if Cobb did sharpen his spikes, it was an intentional act to unnerve the opposition - and would have done it with some deliberation to be seen by the opposing team. Sadly, all of his teammates portray Cobb as an intense loner without many friends. And they also state that he was picked on relentlessly - even by his teammates....hiding his glove, stealing his shoes, etc. I imagine that would get tiresome after a while - even for the most patient. Z |
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Emotionally damaged from a real jacked up home life A Southerner in a very Northern Baseball league at a time when he might as well have been a foreigner. The polar opposite of the team favorite, Sam Crawford. This guy was a loner for a reason and he was completely misunderstood. |
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hell...ty had a repertrois of 9 different slides!!!! Thats HOF worthy!
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what none of you are asking is why would the league knowingly
fictionalize a players entire life for the sake revisionist history and let a myth live indefinitely? I havent read the article yet so I dont know how they address his alledged beating up of a fan that the long baseball documentary had no problem retelling. Even though they were supposed to do exhaustive research |
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Makes you wonder what he would be like if you met him in person. |
Question for all the lawyers in the house. If the above respondents in this thread were in a jury pool, would their posts here help you to determine whether or not you would dismiss them as a candidate? :)
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Mr. Leershen's book on Cobb won the SABR Larry Ritter award for 2016 last week
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One general observation from a number of these posts. It's interesting reading comments on 'facts' from those who either haven't read the article or repeating claims made from previously (fabricated) works as 'facts'. I would also offer that Cobb wasn't as much "misunderstood" as he was "misrepresented". |
Cobb
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Sorry, I poorly structured that post. I was NOT implying you, but others earlier in the this thread that seemed to be repeating other Cobb 'myths'. |
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