SURVEY...T206 Super-Prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs
 

Most of us know...when American Lithographic printed their SOVEREIGN 350 cards, they subsequently selected 6 subjects from their 350 Series as the 1st group of T206's
to form (what we now refer to as the 350/460 series).

These "Super-Prints", as identified by Scot Reader in his book Inside T206 (published in 2006), are shown here with both their SOVEREIGN 350 & SOVEREIGN 460 backs.

Most T206 collectors of these cards will tell you that these 6 subjects with SOVEREIGN 350 (apple green) backs are not too easy to find.

Furthermore, in my opinion, the SOVEREIGN 460 versions of these 6 super-prints are very scarce to find. What has been your experience collecting these specific T206's ?



.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x25.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x25.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn350x25xx.jpg
. .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn350x25bk.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn350x25bk.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn350x25bk.jpg




http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...cematty25x.jpg. . . . . . . .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...ematty25xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x25.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x25.jpg

. . .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn350x25bx.jpg. . .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn460x25bx.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...chasedkcap.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...chasedkcap.jpg



I'll start this survey with my numbers regarding these 6 super-prints. Show and/or tell us of your numbers ?


SURVEY. . . . . 350 . . . . . 460

Chance ............ 2 ............. 1

Chase (blue) ..... 2 ............. 2

Chase (cap) ...... 2 ............. 2

Cobb ................ 2 ............. 1

Evers ............... 2 ............. 1

Matty ............... 1 ............. 1


Looking forward to seeing your inputs regarding this survey; and, feel free to show us your SOVEREIGN cards.


TED Z
.

Only a Chance
 

Ted,
I will skip the photo as my PSA 1 Frank Chance Yellow Portrait Sovereign 350 is rough, but I do have one.

No other Sovereign 350 or 460 backs for the super prints.

Dave

Nice post Ted, 100% agree both series are quite tough for those 6....with the 460 being more scarce.

I have owned both series for Cobb & Chase blue portraits.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2871/...38795c0e_n.jpghttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8265/...8e613c07_n.jpghttps://farm4.staticflickr.com/3730/...4dbfe2e5_n.jpg

Ted I no longer own any, but have owned the following.
350 series- Chance (1)
460 series- Chance (1)
Evers (3)

Here are scans of the Chance and two of the Evers 460 series.

http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/ho...gn%20460_1.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/ho...eign%20460.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/ho...0Sovereign.jpg

SURVEY...T206 Super-Prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs
 

Thanks Dave, Chris, and Mike......we have a good start here, considering how tough these 6 super-prints are with either of these SOVEREIGN backs.



http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...cematty25x.jpg. . . . . . . .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...ematty25xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg



SURVEY. . . . . 350 . . . . . 460

Chance ............ 4 ............. 2

Chase (blue) ..... 3 ............. 3

Chase (cap) ...... 2 ............. 2

Cobb ................ 3 ............. 2

Evers ............... 3 ............. 3

Matty ............... 1 ............. 1


Looking forward to seeing your inputs regarding this survey; and, feel free to show us your SOVEREIGN cards.


TED Z
.

Ted
none out of15 super prints
drew

Chancey
 

I have the Yellow background Chance portrait with a Sovereign 350 back.

Brian

Here are a few...

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd7be496b.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps9ebe1d8f.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...pse96447a5.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps2b8cb068.jpg


Be well

Heres my contribution from my near complete cubs sovereigns team set
Attachment 171812

Attachment 171813

Hi Ted,

I have Cobb and Chance with Sov 350 green apple.

Rob

Ted....
 

me and you have discussed this a few times....this is a GREAT thread...

as you know , I was close to completing the sov 460 ....I had to abandon it when I traded my cobb sov 460 to Jamie for my blank back ghost moriarity with the help of Chris and you....


I only had 12 more to go!!

I owned the cobb 460, chance 460, chase throwING 460....had 1/2 the super prints!

MIKE HEALER CALL ME!:)

Hey Johnny
 

We covered a lot of bases in our ongoing T206 discussions. And yes, this topic was one of them.

I felt that you should have pursued the SOVEREIGN 460 sub-set to its 52-card completion. After all, you were fortunate to have the red Cobb.

The red Cobb with a SOVEREIGN 460 back ranks as one of the toughest T206 front/back combos of the entire T206 population permutations.



TED Z
.

thanks ted....
 

I was probably the closest!:)

SURVEY...T206 Super-Prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs
 

Thanks Drew, Brian, Brian, Sean, Rob and Johnny for your inputs to this survey.
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x25.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x25.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...chasedkcap.jpg
..http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn350x25bx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn460x25bx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...chasedkcap.jpg



SURVEY......T206 super-prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs


Subjects. . . . . 350 . . . . . 460

Chance ............. 7 ............. 3

Chase (blue) ..... 3 ............. 3

Chase (cap) ...... 2 ............. 3

Cobb ................ 5 ............. 2

Evers ............... 3 ............. 4

Matty ............... 1 ............. 2


Looking forward to seeing your inputs regarding this survey; and, feel free to show us your SOVEREIGN cards.

Thanks,

TED Z
.

Hey Mr. Zanidakis.

At one time or another I have owned 2 different Chance's with a 350 reverse (one a PSA 6.5 and one raw which looked roughly VG/EX+), and one Matty with a 460 reverse (SGC 4). Sadly, I do not think I have the scans anymore as this was a few years ago before I started archiving my scans, so for that I am sorry.

I hope you and your family have been well.

Happy Holidays!

See, this is why I love this website. I didn't know there was a lime green edition. To you, T-206 Newbies (like me), you can learn so much on here.

I never leave here without learning something. Look around and learn. :)

Net54 is the best vintage card website on the web. Thanks Lance for telling me about it.

Go Cubs ( for Lance).

Go Braves (for me). :D

Ted. To note for your numbers the Cobb 460 example I briefly owned went to Johnny then to Jamie B.

Thanks Chris
 

I have corrected the count of the Cobb Sov 460 in my last tally.


TED Z
.

Hi Derek
 

I appreciate your inputs; and, I will add them to this survey the next time I upgrade it.


MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR to you and your Family


TED Z
.

Survey....updated
 

Thanks Derek, and a Net54 reader (who emailed) for your inputs to this survey.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...cematty25x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign460x25.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...ematty25xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gn460x25bx.jpg




SURVEY......T206 super-prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs


Subjects. . . . . 350 . . . . . 460

Chance ............. 9 ............. 3

Chase (blue) ..... 3 ............. 3

Chase (cap) ...... 3 ............. 3

Cobb ................ 5 ............. 2

Evers ............... 4 ............. 4

Matty ............... 2 ............. 3



Hey guys

Let's see (or hear of) some of your SOVEREIGN super-prints......and, please feel free to show us your SOVEREIGN cards.


Thanks,

TED Z
.

Evers Sov 350
 

Attachment 172268

Attachment 172269Ted, I have this one, Bill

Evers Sov 350
 

Attachment 172268

Attachment 172269

Ted, I have this one, Bill

Hi Ted,

Well, it may not be pretty, but it is what it is ................


Attachment 172281

SURVEY...T206 super-prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs
 

Thanks Bill and S Gross for your inputs to this survey.

For the purposes of this survey, the condition of your cards is immaterial.

Show us your " 10's ".... or your " Authentic's ".... or whatever.... they all count.


TED Z
.

SURVEY....updated
 

Two more super-prints with the tough SOVEREIGN 460 backs. I was rummaging thru my assortment of T206's, and found these two.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rsChase50x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rsChase50b.jpg



SURVEY......T206 super-prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs


Subjects. . . . . 350 . . . . . 460

Chance ............. 9 ............. 3

Chase (blue) ..... 3 ............. 3

Chase (cap) ...... 3 ............. 5

Cobb ................ 5 ............. 2

Evers ............... 5 ............. 5

Matty ............... 2 ............. 3


Hey guys

Let's see (or hear of) some of your SOVEREIGN super-prints......and, please feel free to show us your SOVEREIGN cards.


Thanks,

TED Z
.

great thread........
 

we need to find some cobbs:)

Chase 460
 

I have this one and owned another previously...

Ted, I have an Evers, a Chase throwing black cap, and a Mathewson. All of them are Sovereign 350s. :)

SURVEY...T206 super-prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs
 

Thanks Steve and Sean for your inputs to this survey.


http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...cematty25x.jpg.................http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg
.http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...ematty25xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg




SURVEY......T206 super-prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs


Subjects. . . . . 350 . . . . . 460

Chance ............. 9 ............. 3

Chase (blue) ..... 3 ............. 5

Chase (cap) ...... 4 ............. 3

Cobb ................ 5 ............. 2

Evers ............... 5 ............. 5

Matty ............... 3 ............. 3



Hey guys

Let's see (or hear of) some of your SOVEREIGN super-prints......and, please feel free to show us your SOVEREIGN cards.


Thanks,

TED Z
.

tED....
 

After 4 years of working on the set, I love this post!:)

Did I luck out
 

when I offered this Chase for sale and then when it didn't sell for trade, and no one took me up on it?
I'm not sure what I was asking, either $37 or $45 [last post 11/03/13].
Then I posted a thread [on 01/13/14] asking about the odd printer's mark on it, offering it for trade, cheaply, to which I got 0 replies. I then decided to keep it as I liked the printer's mark and the apple green Sovereign.

Most of us know...
I'm afraid you give me/some of us too much credit, Ted.
Thanks for the info on the "super-prints," and I hope this Chase qualifies for your survey:

Hey Doug
 

Consider yourself lucky that this Chase card did not sell. It is worth a lot more $$$$ than what you priced it at.

I appreciate your kind words and thanks for your input. I will add this card to the survey when I update it again.


TED Z
.

SURVEY......updated
 

Thanks Doug, Bob M. and Net54 emailers for your inputs to this survey.


http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...cematty25x.jpg.................http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg
.http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...ematty25xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...verssov460.jpg




SURVEY......T206 super-prints with respect to their SOVEREIGN 350 vs SOVEREIGN 460 backs


Subjects. . . . . 350 . . . . . 460

Chance ............ 10 ............ 3

Chase (blue) ..... 3 ............. 5

Chase (cap) ...... 6 ............. 3

Cobb ................ 7 ............. 2

Evers ............... 6 ............. 5

Matty ............... 4 ............. 3



Hey guys

Let's see (or hear of) some of your SOVEREIGN super-prints......and, please feel free to show us your SOVEREIGN cards.


Thanks,

TED Z
.

Ted.....
 

Jamie got my cobb sov 460 that I traded for a ghost BB......

I gave up on sov 460 sub set and was almost there as you know, only needed 10 more cards.... I think your the only one to complete it!!:eek:.....but after giving up cobb, you know the rest...

there has to be more cobb sov 460's out there....


Mike from west coast should chime in....hall must have one....Jamie...and you....


there has to be more cobb 460's:confused::confused:

Hey Johnny
 

I know of 4 red Cobb's with SOVEREIGN 460 backs. There is a Net54 member who has one. Perhaps, he will chime in here.

Furthermore, check out the SGC Pop Report. The last time I looked at it, it indicates one red Cobb graded with SOV 460.


Take care, good buddy.

TED Z
.

SOVEREIGN 350......the Big Picture
 

Before this thread disappears into "never-never land"......let's consider the nitty-gritty of the SOVEREIGN 350 series cards.

American Lithographic (ALC) introduced 270 new subjects in their 350 Series..... 184 - Major Leaguers, and 86 - Minor Leaguers (Eastern League and American Association).
The 1st press runs of this 350 Series were the PIEDMONT 350 cards of which all 270 subjects were printed.

Then for reasons unknown, ALC printed only 204 of these new subjects with the SOVEREIGN 350 backs. The early press runs included 79 Major League subjects and 59 Minor
League subjects. These cards were printed with the normal shade of Green ink.

Incidently, 66 subjects are missing (No Prints) from the original 270. Perhaps, ALC either ran out the pre-printed sheets of these missing 66 subjects, or they switched these
66-subjects sheets to printing other T-brands (CAROLINA BRIGHTS, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, etc.) on their backs.


In their last press runs of this series, ALC printed the final 66 subjects (of the 204) with SOVEREIGN 350 backs using a lighter Green ink (that we refer to as "apple green").
Illustrated here, are this color differences of these two groups of cards with SOVEREIGN 350 backs.



.............. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nLajCYoung.jpg

..................apple green backs
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...slajcyoung.jpg
................ normal green back



The 6 super-prints ** are included in this group of 66. My theory is that these 66 guys were on the very last pre-printed sheets of the 350 series. Check-out my simulated 72-card
sheet. Note that the majority of them are action poses. ALC printed the portraits of most of these players in the 150 Series. In subsequent series ALC printed them in action poses.
Apparently, ALC then extended these 66 subjects into what we refer to as the 350/460 series.
Actually, 63 of these 66 subjects were printed with the various 460 Series backs. Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, and Bob Rhoades were not printed with any 460 Series backs, probably
because their Major League careers had ended prior to the timeline of this press run.


Simulated 72-card sheet comprising of the SOVEREIGN 350 "apple green" cards

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rprints12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...bConDav12x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rprints12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LDoyElb12x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DouDow12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sLajLak12x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...PfeReul12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...WillWhi12x.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...McInMul12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ySnoSta12x.jpg
.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...urpNich12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rCYoSte12x.jpg


**Note that my sheet has the 6 super-prints Double-Printed. I have seen these super-prints with Same-Names (top & bottom) with SOVEREIGN 350 backs.
Furthermore, T206 surveys indicate that these super-prints are more plentiful than any of the other 60 cards in this group with SOVEREIGN 350 backs.

I hope my lengthy presentation here is clear. It is the result of the on-going research I did while completing an all-SOVEREIGN set in 2007. In this process
I gained a tremendous amount of insight into the make-up of this unique set.

Any comments, differences, or questions regarding this Series of the SOVEREIGN set are greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

TED Z
.

Matty black hat
 

Hey Ted;
Here's another one to add to the collection:

Attachment 173226 Attachment 173227

Hi Bob
 

A great looking Matty....thanks for posting it.

I have added it to the survey (Post #33).


Take care,

TED Z
.

Ted....
 

great survey!!

lets find some cobbs!

I almost bought another sov 460 the other day and had to stop myself!;):)

Really happy to have picked up this Chase Blue Sov. 460 from Goodwin. This same Chase was sold a few months ago (raw) on Sterling and I was kicking myself that I didn't pick it up. I believe this may make the the total tally of Chase Blue Sov. 460 to 6...although pop reports for PSA & SGC have the graded totals as 5.

To date, the highest grade for a Chase Blue Sov. 460 is still only a Good 2. Anyone hiding any others?

Interestingly enough, as I was putting together the sweet cap 460 factory 42 subset, Chase blue portrait was VERY difficult to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Ted:

I was surprised & delighted that I have these three!!! I have never really collected T206 by their reverses, just bought what I liked when I saw them! Lucky me OR shrewd me OR BOTH!?!?!?!

The knowledge & cards here NEVER cease to amaze!

Greg

I have this one:

+1, there are a few "common" backs that are very tough to find in the super prints.