Any Topps Venezuelan experts out there?
 

I just picked up this 1959 Spahn on ebay. It was sold to me as a Venezuelan, but I can't tell one way or the other by looking at it. Can any of you let me know how to tell the difference? Thanks.

Paul

First off...they printed the first 196 or 198 (Can't remember which) cards in the regular set as Venezuela cards, so this being #40 is good. Some on the back say Printed by Benco (the company that printed the V cards) but some still say Topps. The biggest difference in those cards printed by Topps is the amount of gloss on the front. This makes it hard to tell, especially by an internet scan and not in hand. V cards in this year look very faded on both front and back. I went through a Venezuela card phase, but quickly lost interest due to the difficulty in telling the difference...especially in the 59s where a low grade American card can often pass.




EDIT....

Found this googling it...copy/paste...tough to tell on that Spahn. Looks a little clean to me, but I am no expert...thus me getting out of those type cards.


Benco's version came out in two series, #1-110 and #111-198, matching Topps own #1 to #198 (not 196 as often reported). The card backs include a mix of "(C) T.C.G. PRINTED IN U.S.A." and "Impreso en Venezuela por Benco CA" tag lines, oriented vertically along the right edge. It's tough to discern low-grade American versions from the former; see the Topps Archives article on Venezuelans for distinguishing scans that compare card stock for each.

I'm no expert and have seen Topps Venezuelan cards with either the usual 'printed in the USA' verbiage or the Venezuelan wording, so you can't tell solely based on that. If it is real, then it is in exceptional shape, because these cards are usually rife with creases and paper loss on the back from being pasted in albums.

Spahn
 

I am no expert on the Venezuelans either. I have a couple of examples I keep with my regular Topps set but got them with the Benco trademark to be sure. Your back is much whiter than the ones on mine, but that maybe something common the the Benco versions

There is a guy, A761506/Josh, who sometimes posts here but who I know better from another board, who is an expert. I think he has this set and maybe all of the Venezuelan sets done. I will ask him to take a look over here.

If it is regular Topps card, it is one of 3 variations. The 59 Topps Spahn can be found with a 1921, 1931 or 193*as the DOB on the back. I do not know if all the Venezuelans have the 1921 DOB but Josh may know

Josh is the man!
 

Josh is definitely the guy you want to offer his opinion here. I haven't met anyone who knows more about Venezuelans than him.

You have a US Topps standard issue card
 

The Spahn card in the '59 Venezuelan set always has the Venezuelan trademark. While some of the cards do have the US trademark, they are consistent throughout, for instance, every Venezuelan copy of Spahn will have the Venezuelan trademark line, while every Ford Frick will have the US trademark. Additionally on Spahn, to address another issue posed, the Venezuelan versions do not have any variations with his year of birth. It is always 21.

Even if you were not aware of the trademark issues, the cards are still easily identifiable just by sight. The majority of 1st series Venezuelan cards (1-110) you might come across will be found with gray backs. You will never find a US Topps card 1-110 with a gray back. Rarely, you can find a '59 Venezuelan card with a cream colored back, but it looks nothing remotely close to the bright cream color of the US issue. It's a much more dull appearance and darker cream color. All cards in the Venezuelan set were issued on both gray and cream colored stock.

There are multiple pictures of these cards available for identification purposes at the Yahoo Group: Topps Venezuela

Thank you Josh and everyone. Not what I wanted to hear. I guess I'll be contacting the seller.

Paul

Here's a pic of a Venezuelan Spahn in case you need something additional to convince the seller to refund your purchase.

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaim...0G-Spahn-5.jpg

Love that Spahn Josh!!

Looks like it's back up!
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-Topps-V...E:B:SS:US:3160

Will people never learn?

Spahn
 

The DOB is different on this one from the one Paul posted

Spahn
 

I sent him/ her a note' got response, and the listing was changed

I don't think the Venezuelan/Topps confusion is necessary intentional on a lot of these, particularly when the seller is asking $13 for the card. I collect Venezuelans and have contacted a seller or two about an improper listing. Some sellers just do not know what they have. When they go to list the card for sale and start typing in identifying information into the listing, eBay occasionally identifies it as a Venezuelan rather than Topps.

You mention that you collect Venezuelan Topps... Any dupes? I'm willing to trade/buy...

Let me know...

Thanks. Unfortunately, I don't have any duplicates. Although I collect, I only collect Mantle Venezuelans. If I do ever end up with duplicates, I will let you know though.

I also love the 1959 Topps Venezuela issue and only buy the Spanish copyright cards to be sure.

Did BVG grade this one incorrectly?
 

Based soley what Josh posted in # 6 it would seem they did.

Welcome to the board Jason

Definitely

Josh is the man but definitely a regular topps card.

I recently saw/bought three 1960 Topps Vennie cards from three different sellers and all three were not Vennie's. Seems those using AI for their listings are having 1960 Topps US listed as Venezulean!

They either don't read the listing after using AI or don't know the difference.

One was a card numbered in the 400's when they stopped at 198, a second said he did use AI and was surprised how it was listed after I pointed out that it was an American issue and the third said it was his father's collection and the the cardboard stock was different so it must be a Vennie. He did not know how to tell the difference until I told him a few things to look for then he said it was a US version. All three were canceled/refunded.

Be careful out there!