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T206 DRUM guide and UPDATED checklist
As difficult as the T206 DRUM cards are to find, there are "rules of thumb" to predict if a certain subject was printed with the DRUM back. The following rules
can be used as a guide. 350-only series There are 190 subjects in this series that were printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 frame back (circa..Summer of 1910). My "A-B-C-D" theory (see NOTE) suggests that these 190 subjects were also printed with the BROAD LEAF 350, CYCLE 350 and DRUM backs. For the greater part, this has been proven true for the BROAD LEAF 350 and CYCLE 350 cards. However....to date....only 107 subjects in the 350-only series have been found with the DRUM back. Recent DRUM finds these past several years have added new DRUM's to this tally. Eventually, I expect that we will find the outstanding DRUM cards. Subsequently, I will post the confirmed lists of the AB 350 and DRUM cards in this series. 350-only series example http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psa586832c.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps07e0156e.jpg 350/460 series example 350/460 series The AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (AB 350) cards in the 350/460 series were printed without the frame. We have confirmed 37 of the subjects in this series with this AB 350 back. It appears that American Lithographic also printed these 37 guys with DRUM backs. To date, 34 have been confirmed with the DRUM back. The 3 outstanding subjects that have yet to be discovered (and, I fully expect they eventually will appear) are...... Conroy (bat) Mullin (bat) Stahl (glove) Subsequently, I will post the confirmed lists of the AB 350 and DRUM cards in this series. NOTE....A-B-C-D stylistic pattern http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps39543005.jpg For more info on this A-B-C-D pattern, check-out these two threads...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...eaf-cycle-drum http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...eaf-cycle-drum T-Rex TED |
T206 DRUM checklist
DRUM backs confirmed......total = 143
350-only series subjects........... 107 cards Abstein Adkins Arellanes Armbruster Atz Barbeau Jack Barry (A's) Barry (Milwaukee) Batch Becker Bescher (portrait) Burke Carr Casey Charles Clark Congalton Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Dineen Donovan (throwing) Dorner Downey (fielding) Downs Egan Engle Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Fletcher Freeman Gasper Graham (Boston) Hartsel Hallman Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hofman Howell (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hunter Jackson Kelley Killian (portrait) Kisinger Knabe Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh LaPorte Lattimore Lavender Lennox Livingstone Maddox Maloney Marshall McAleese McBride McGann Milan Mitchell (Cincinnati) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Chicago) Moran (Providence) Moriarty Mullen (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (fielding) Nattress Oakes Perring Pfeister (seated) Phelps Phillippe Pickering Purtell Quinn Randall Raymond Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schmidt (portrait) Scott Slagle Smith (Buffalo) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Starr Stephens Strang Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston) Taylor Thielman Thomas Titus Unglaub Warhop Willett (bat) Zimmerman Six Super-Print subjects............ 2 cards (I have yet to see the four " ?-marked " subjects with DRUM backs....although, I think they were printed) Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait).................. ? Chase (dark cap)....................... ? Cobb (red portrait) Evers (Chicago-yellow sky).......... ? Mathewson (dark cap)................ ? 350/460 series subjects........... 34 cards Baker Bender (no trees) Burch (fielding) Crawford (bat) Doolan (bat) Downey (bat) Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Konetchy (glove low) Lake (St Louis-no ball) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) McQuillan (bat) Murphy (bat) Nichols (bat) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (New York) Wagner (bat on right shoulder) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) Note I do expect that the following 350/460 subjects will eventually be discovered with DRUM backs....since these 3 were printed with AB 350 (no frame) backs: Conroy (bat) Mullin (bat) Stahl (glove) TED Z |
T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 checklist
AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 confirmed lists
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...igpackt206.jpg 350-only series AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 frame............190 cards Abbott Abstein Adkins Anderson Arellanes Armbruster Arndt Atz Barbeau Barry (A's) Barry (Milw) Batch Beck Becker Beckley Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Blackburne Bliss Brain Brashear Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Burke Burns Bush Butler Campbell Carr Carrigan Casey Cassidy Chance (portrait-yellow) Chappelle Charles Chase (portrait-blue) Chase (dark cap) Clancy Clark Clymer Cobb (portrait-red) Collins (A's) Congalton Cravath Cree Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Dessau Dineen Donovan (throwing) Doolan (fielding) Dorner Downey (fielding) Downs Dubuc Dunn (Baltimore) Dunn (Brooklyn) Dygert Easterly Egan Engle Evers (bat-yellow sky) Ferguson Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Flanagan Fletcher Freeman Fromme Ganzel Gasper Graham (Boston) Graham (St Louis) Grimshaw Hall Hallman Hannifan Hartsel Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hoffman (Providence) Hoffman (St Louis) Hofman Howard (Chicago) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands/mouth) Hulswitt Hunter Jackson Jones (Detroit) Kelley Killian (portrait) Kisinger Knabe Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh Kruger Laporte Lattimore Lavender Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Malarkey Maloney Marquard (portrait) Marshall Mathewson (dark cap) McAleese McBride McCormick Mc Elveen McGann McGinley McGinnity McGlynn McIntyre (Detroit) Merritt Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Milligan Mitchell (Cinci) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Chicago) Moran (Providence) Moriarty Mullin (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (bat) Myers (fielding) Nattress Oakes Oberlin O'Brien O'Neill Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phelan Phelps Phillippe Pickering Poland Purtell Quillen Quinn Randall Raymond Rhoades (hands/chest) Rhodes Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schlafly Schmidt (portrait) Schreck Scott Sharpe Shaw (Providence) Slagle Smith (Buffalo) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Stanage Starr Stephens Strang Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston) J. Tannehill (Washington) Taylor Thielmann Thomas Titus Unglaub Warhop White (Buffalo) Willett Wilson Wright Irv Young Zimmerman <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/ab350willetts460bks.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> 350/460 series AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame)............37 cards Baker Bender (no trees) Burch (fielding) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Doolan (bat) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Griffith (bat) Jennings (two hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Konetchy (glove low) Lake (no ball) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) Nichols (bat) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Wagner (bat on right) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Wiltse (pitching) TED Z |
As usual, your t206 knowledge amazes me. I for one deeply appreciate your sharing your research. I hope someday to contribute a small bit of info to the t206 arena. Dave.
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Ted,
It's very interesting! It appears that there is only (1) unconfirmed CYCLE 350 subject to match your theory; that being DUMMY TAYLOR and a bunch of BROADLEAF 350 unconfirmed subjects (24) to be exact. I believe it shows that BL 350's are harder to find than CYCLE 350's and it's just a matter of time that the BL350's are found. Craig |
Ted, awesome work as usual... Mighty impressed.
I have a theory too... A D-B-C-A theory, That it's nearly impossible to find a Drum for sale at a reasonable price, followed by Broad Leaf, then Cycle and finally AB. :) |
T206 DRUM connection with AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 cards
Thanks guys for the compliments.
Given that these DRUM's are so scarce, the intent of this thread is to provide a guide to inform you if your favorite T206 exists (or can be found) with a DRUM back. Now, I would really appreciate it if some one on this forum can find me a blue portrait Hal Chase with a DRUM back.....so, I can complete my "Quintuplicate" sub-set. I've been searching for a Chase / DRUM since 1984, when I acquired my first T206 DRUM card (Moeller). http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5f9f6375.jpg .http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9b0e30b1.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...nchaseblue.jpg.http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/t...chaseblueb.jpg TED Z |
One can dream Ted. Photoshopped.
I'm close with Hofman, need a BL. Anyone :) http://i.imgur.com/L6ADj.jpg |
Hey Chris
I re-sized your images....printed them....and, cut and paste them. Then placed this "paper Chase" next to my real blue Chase cards. It will suffice until ..... :) Take care, TED Z |
TRex
great work!
i note that you mention that your first Drum was a Moeller. Interestingly, my first Drum was also a Moeller!!! :) all the best, ole buddy barry |
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Hey good buddy....it's a small-small world......when identical scenarios occur regarding the same T206 DRUM card :) Best regards, T-Rex TED |
At this point I don't believe the A+B+C+D rule is concrete. I think it's a good way to look at the 190 subjects from a broad perspective but it isn't a hard and fast rule for every one of the subjects.
I'm skeptical that all 190 subjects were printed with Broad Leaf 350, and even more skeptical that they all were printed with Drum 350. I believe most were, but not all. When it comes to the 37 print group 3 subjects that were printed with AB350NF, 34 have been confirmed with Drum 350. As scarce as Drum's are it's certainly possible that the other three could still be confirmed, but my belief right now is that they were not printed with a Drum back. |
T206 DRUM guide and UPDATED checklist
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, to date, with 190 subjects printed with the AB 350 (frame)....189 subjects with CY 350....166 subjects with BL 350....and, the scarcest of this A-B-C-D series, DRUM 350, having 107 subjects, I'd say your skepticism is moot. In fact, I'd say it is indicative of that ole "not invented here syndrome". Quote:
My research indicates that every AB 350 (no frame) subject that was printed with a BROAD LEAF 460 (BL 460) back will also be found with a DRUM back. Therefore, let's consider the three AB 350 (no frame) subjects that have yet to be confirmed with the DRUM back...... Conroy (bat) Mullin (bat) Stahl (glove) Conroy & Mullin both were also printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back. Therefore, due to my "mutually exclusive" rule, I do not expect these 2 subjects to be found with the BL 460 back....consequently there is a slim (or no) chance that they were printed with a DRUM back. On the other hand, the Jake Stahl has been confirmed with the BL 460 back. And, I will bet that Stahl will eventually be found with the DRUM back. TED Z |
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Ted - My opinion that the A+B+C+D not being a hard and fast rule isn't something new. I sent you a detailed email in 2010 explaining why I was skeptical of it. You said it was a lot to digest and that you would get back to me. Between then and now there haven't been the number of new Broad Leaf or Drum confirmations necessary to change my opinion, and you haven't gotten back to me. So for now I remain skeptical and my opinion is moot. Any similarities between the AB350 (No Frame) subjects that were also printed with BL460 is mere coincidence. The two backs were printed with different groups of subjects and at different times. Coincidences between cherry picked subjects, from two different groups, will only lead to false conclusions. Even if Stahl is eventually confirmed with a Drum 350 it will just be a coincidence using your comparison. |
Cool thread Mr. Z. I love those Drums!
I know have seen a couple of Evers (CHI), but it was well out of my budget. |
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And, very recently a smaller DRUM find. All of which together contributed quite a number of new DRUM's that were added to our confirmed list. TED Z |
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Hey Derek Nice to hear from you. Tell your Dad that I will be calling him early next week. Best regards, TED Z |
Philadelphia Ted,
You are a hard guy to track down. Can I please have your attention and forgive me if this is not the thread to ask but are you still set on T206 sheets that consist of 12 cards wide? I recently purchased a card of Walter Johnson (Por) that has a Sweet Caporal 350 #30 reverse with the Factory 30 anomaly at the bottom of the card. My question for you is (just speculation): How many of these Factory anomalies were printed on a sheet? Craig |
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of 12 cards each). If you do a SEARCH you will see that I have posted numerous threads on Net54 regarding my theory. It is logically based on the standard (18" x 24") size sheets of cardboard of that era....lithographic printing press track widths (18" or 19")....and, the factor 12 is congruent with the Series structure of the T206 set. Quote:
I've only seen #25 or #30. These numbers 25 or 30 coincide with the Sweet Cap Factory number of the cards printed on the sheet. The number was most likely printed on the edge of the sheet so that the jobber (who cut down the sheets and packaged the cards) at American Lithographic could at a quick glance identify which Sweet Caporal tobacco factory to ship the cards to. TED Z |
Sir,
I appreciate your valued response and I received the info that I was looking for so that my research can continue. Respectfully yours, Craig M. |
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