Koufax?
 

Came across this on eBay. Currently at 157.50 with 16 bidders. The seller states that he has a JSA LOA as well as a "coa from another authenticator." There is a no return policy and something that struck me as odd, no ball holder. Is this good or did I just spot my first faux-Koufax?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sandy-Koufax...ht_1262wt_1400

Ball looks fine to me.

Thanks. Any idea why a seller wouldn't offer a return? Also, why wouldn't there be a ball holder included with something like a Koufax ball? I'm not challenging your opinion, just trying to learn.

To get a better picture of the baseball. If it was inside a holder there would most likely be a glare.

As for the no return policy, you can return anything you purchase on ebay. Just file a Paypal claim as item not as described if you are not satisfied.

OK. I understand the no return policy bit but the seller says that the ball doesn't come with a ball holder or cube. Just struck me as odd.

I would ask to see the cert from JSA. I really believe that ball is not even close to being real.You only have to look at the S.
I do have a question for you. What are you collecting in autographs? You seem to be all over the place. I can not say that any one authenticator is better than someone else but just use your head. That is why Leon said this is not a free site. I don't want to sound mean but there come a time that you have to make your own decisions. Again make it clear what you are collecting so you that everyone on this site can help you in your search.
. The next question is where is the other cert from. I sure as hell would post both certs to make sure my buyers see what is fact or not. I would agree no returns means I don't buy. This is easy if you just take time to make sure what you are doing is right. There is no sure way to make sure what you are buying is real unless it was signed in front of you. Then you have nothing out there but trust.

Shelly, I just started collecting so that is why I'm "all over the place." I am doing my own research. I looked at this Koufax ball, did some comparing and didn't think it looked good. As such, I did what I've seen so many other people do, which is post it. Further more, I've been doing as much reading as I possibly can regarding the hobby. "If you buy something because they said it is real makes them the bad guy because they gave you free advise." Frankly Shelly, that isn't even a coherent sentence so I don't know what to do with that one. From day one I was prompted by other members to ask questions and seek advice. Am I using this service for free authentications? Of course not. I have a minuscule collection of 6 balls. I'd like to build on those six and I'd also like to become as knowledgeable as possible while doing so. Do this rub you the wrong way Shelly? If so, my apologies.

I want to thank you for being so kind. I had just posted a new version of what I wrote. You answered before I could post it. The ball is bad. I should have never said anything else.Have a nice evening.

That ball s-u-x.
I bet ebay takes it down.

Ty, Just went on Ebay. There are 266 autographed Koufax balls. I would say that at least 200 have certs displayed from the following companys.. Steiner, Online Authentic's,Jsa, Psa and Uda. I can not stop and wonder why you would pick the one ball that is without a doubt not even close to being authentic. Please tell me why you would not trust the above company's? I know you have said your just learning.
People have already told you that this is best your going to get unless you watched it being signed. I will ask you again. What autographs do you want? I am sure there is enough people on this site that can take care of all you needs if not I sure they can direct you to the right place. If you have older items that you want I would suggest Richard and Jim.

Damn, Shelly! Read the OP! :eek: Nowhere did he say he wanted to buy it. He was pointing out a forgery, albeit in a tentative manner. He thought it was, but he wasn't sure, so he asked.

He clarified himself in response to your original beatdown, yet you do it again an hour and a half later? Sheesh.

Would not getting a ball holder be a final determining factor for not purchasing that baseball?

The only time a ball holder should be important is in gym class :D

Looking at the sellers recent feedback, guy has 7 neutral and 5 negative in the past 12 months. For that reason alone, I would back away.

:D. Good one.

JimStinson
 

Now thats a thought to fondle....I mean ponder

Thank you good sir. I have no desire to enter into a back and forth exchange, that will most assuredly end badly, with anyone. We all have bad days and I will simply chalk up Shelly's posts to such a day and leave it at that. Again, thanks for your support it is indeed appreciated.
Adam

Ebay has removed the Koufax ball.

Just in case you need one, Adam, they are all over Ebay.

Attachment 71355

JimStinson
 

Or this one which it appears comes with a "gas mask"

Wow Chris. You seem to have a penchant for posting one or two lines which from what I've read, are largely meant to demean. I suppose they could also be seen as a rather weak attempt at wit. In short, kick rocks sir.

Why is everyone so angry?:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

You call it what you like, Adam. I'd like to know why you're really here?

Who is angry, James?

I'm just curious why Adam started this thread.

James, you wrote "The ball looks fine to me." Why did it "Look fine to you?"

Chris, why italicize really? It's as if you think my intentions are nefarious. My intentions here are to learn about the hobby. I do apologize for not being a heavy hitter or a big name in the business, which I assume based on your posts you believe yourself to be. Who knows, perhaps you are a leader in the hobby. Perhaps I post too often for your taste? I'm a teacher and school begins tomorrow so you'll see less activity from me. I've answered your question will you do the same for me? Chris, why do you have a seemingly huge chip on your shoulder?

I'd like to know that myself. Had I known that my post would've set a couple of people off I wouldn't of submitted it.

Only time will tell.

Chris,

- I did initially believe the ball looked good....
- Anger is all over this board....take step back and look around. It is supposed to be a community, but everyone is going back and forth (including myself with Bob Semetka) like a bunch of children. I have now chosen to stop.

Only time will tell Chris? Perhaps you have issues with complex sentence structure. Here, let's do simple sentences so that you might finally understand what I've already stated numerous times. Ready?
I am new to the hobby.
I have a total of six balls.
I am learning.
I saw the Koufax ball.
It looked fake.
I wanted to see If I was learning.
I posted a picture.
Members said to seek advice.
They are helpful.
You are not.

Did you get that champ? Also, you failed to answer my question regarding the huge chip on your shoulder and your overall pissy demeanor.

James, there's a lot to be angry about with all of the scammers and garbage out there.

If collectors like me weren't angry, there would be no one exposing the sellers of forgeries, and the source of the forgeries. If you aren't angry about the crap in the hobby then it probably means you don't care. I care.

WHich is fine, but you are angry with everyone not named Shelly, Jim, or Rich.
I'm not a forger a d I doubt TyrusCobb is either...Life is too short to bicker in an online forum on a Sunday morning.

JimStinson
 

Curly: "Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!"
Moe: "Funny, eh?"
Curly: "Yeah!"
Moe: "Well, laugh this off."
Sfx: Crunch.
Curly: "Ohh, ohh, ohh, ohh!"

Chris! Happy day! I just found literally the first piece of advice I received! And I quote, "Welcome to Net54. You've just experienced the best on the board (Jim Stinson), and the worst (Chris Williams.)
Chris is a total ass. Don't argue with him--it's best just to ignore him.
Lots of people here will help you with your collecting. Have fun!"

I'm going to take that advice!

Show me where I'm angry with you, James? Show me where I'm angry with everyone but Shelly, Danny C. and Rich? I don't know Jim Stinson that well, but I've never been angry with him. Travis and I, although we're on the same side (I hope), have opposing points of view, but I have never been angry with him.

My anger is directed and aimed towards the scammers, the sellers of forgeries, the various sources of those forgeries, etc.

I will take that as a compliment coming from you, Adam, and the source (of course we know who it is) of that comment.

Now the fun begins.

I must say how wrong I was. Even before I saw the ball I should have known it was bad because it had no holder. I am really looking forward to your next item of question. As I said to you, I am only on here to help you.

Adam, there's a book coming out in November that you can get on Amazon called Baseball Hall of Fame Autographs: A Reference Guide [Paperback]
Ron Keurajian (Author)
This is expected to be the end all be all for baseball hall of fame autographs, and Ron Keurajian will have some great examples in the book. He is very respected and really knows his stuff. With out even seeing it yet I know it will be very helpful to you...I know it will be in my library as soon as it comes out. If you don't mind my .02, if I were you I would stick to some private signings and autograph shows through the mail for right now while you get up to speed on some of the other stuff. I know it's tough, especially when you want to get as much stuff as quickly as possible, but trust me, in the long run you'll be happier you waited on some stuff and maybe even paid a little more on the stuff you can get in person.
Have fun collecting,
Mike

Thanks Mike that was what I was trying to say but you did it in a nicer kinder way.

Thanks for the advice Mike. I'm looking forward to the book.
Adam

Shelly, is the ball not bad? Do you not find it odd that a Koufax ball would not be shipped in a protective ball holder? Did I ever say anything other than I found the lack of a ball holder odd? Did I ever indicate that I was considering purchasing it? Going off of your advice and noticing it being talked about in an earlier thread, I did my own research and watched the Real Sports piece. It was fascinating as I had no idea your actions were so very damaging to the hobby. Really Shelly, an entire warehouse of crap only covering 10% of the garbage you helped send into the market? Impressive sir, impressive. What daring, what greed, what callous disregard for the hobby and those you helped steal from! I don't think that you "should have known it was bad because it had no holder." More than likely you knew it was bad because it was one of the pieces of crap that you had a part in. Yet you have the gall to make comments about who can and can't be trusted in the industry. You've done your time? You now want to help the hobby? How much restitution did you pay Shelly? You want to help? Sit back and start cutting checks to all of the people you took advantage of. I don't know much about collecting but I do indeed know what it means to be a decent person and you sir are not. Henceforth I will no longer respond to your posts. Enjoy your day.

I think I heard the same thing in 2008 when I did the Morales Thread. If you would like to name one person that was not reimbursed by me please do. The fact of the matter is this has been gone over so many times it is really old news. 11 years old to be exact. I do invite you to keep it up a tell me something that I have not heard so I can add to list.
I appreciate a man with great insight and new thoughts:D

Adam, I cannot understand some of the comments directed toward you in this thread. However, I feel someone should stop you with the ball cube thing. I've sold at least a thousand balls on ebay, and only a few included the cubes. Why? It's more expensive to ship and I found most buyers didn't really want them, they had their own display choices. Very few that I buy actually include the cube, too. Heck, I have a giant box of cubes in my basement that I wish somebody would buy off me. So for future searches, a lack of ball cube means nothing.

Perhaps, since you're a newbie, someone should have told you this earlier instead of mocking you for your mistaken belief.

Ken

Adam, regarding your question why some sellers offer no returns on ebay.


there are two types of sellers who sell with a no return policy.

one is scammers and people selling forgeries who don't want to have to return the item for obvious reasons.

the other type of sellers are honorable sellers who don't want to play the game of dueling authenticators and have to return a real autograph just because a service like psa or jsa rejects the item.

If i sell an item and offer a return policy, some buyers will buy the real autograph from me, take it to a sportscard show and submit it to psa or jsa, and they deem it fake when its not. Then the buyer comes back to me and returns it under the return policy. I now have to refund the guys money and list it again, and maybe run the risk of it getting pulled off of ebay for no reason. So instead of going through all of this nonsense, I offer a no return policy officially on ebay, but i offer a return policy personally because of course I would accept a return and refund a buyers money if the item is fake.

All a seller like me would ask if that it be shown specifically why an autograph is fake, which is something psa and jsa do not do in their vague letters of rejection. There are so many instances of psa and jsa getting it wrong, that we simply don't trust them to do a thorough and complete job of authenticating an autograph, so we do not want them dictating our return policy, which is fair enough. We have about 9 trillion embarrassing examples of psa and jsa's "work".

it is not to say we will not accept a return for a bad autograph, we will and do if one is presented to us with convincing evidence.

how do you know which type of seller is selling the item? The best thing is to get opinions on items before you bid from people you trust. look into a sellers background and history as best you can.

Ken, thank you for your explanation! I agree, countless posts could have been avoided had this information been given earlier. As for the comments being directed toward me, I'm unfazed as the helpful comments I've received overall far, far exceed those that seek to mock or demean.

Lol!!! Who cares about a ball cube???

Thanks for the advice Travis, it's greatly appreciated.
Adam

Time for this story.
Many years ago I ran into a man in my hallway who lived in my apartment bldg. I was carrying the BB Encyclopedia and he made a comment about it, we started to talk baseball, I mentioned autographs and he told me he still had his childhood collection.
He asked if I wanted to buy his collection.
He and I became close friends after we finished our dealings and went to dinner , Knicks games and the theater together. He had some notoriety in this world and his name was Gil Jonas. It was an honor to be called his friend. Look him up on Amazon or Wikipedia. Sadly he passed away in 2006 and I lost a good friend.
Eventually I bought a large part of his collection and it included 12, yes 12, Babe Ruth autographs, all gotten in person on different things. He actually had become a gofer on the Babe Ruth radio show. Before that he would hang out at the Ansonia Hotel, where the Babe had a room for various purposes :D.
I sold the autographs to various people.
Years later he sold me the last few that he had.
Two of those Ruth autographs were rejected by PSA. One of them was from a customer of mine who had upgraded his Ruth and wanted to sell the one I sold to him. He sent it to an auction house that used PSA and they rejected it, telling him that PSA said it was not good. I told him to send it to Lelands , that they would know it was good. He did send it to them and they happily sold it for him. I would take the opinions of Mike Hefner and Josh Evans over PSA any day of the week. As to the other one that was rejected by PSA , the buyer told me he knew it was good but did want a PSA cert. to make it easier to sell. He kept it and did sell it.
Of course I can tell so many more stories but I figure that is enough for now.

If he likes the old time stuff he can venture into checks and GPC's.

For one thing I think Shelly tried to help you, perhaps more then you realized.
Though you did not say you were going to buy the ball, most times when a newbie posts a picture here, it is usually a picture of something that they are considering buying. Perhaps a little misunderstanding there among the folks posting on this thread.
But I have to admit a :) with all the stuff about a ball holder. That was a bit much.
I believe you can contact FBI agent Tim Fitzsimmons for the information regarding the restitution that Shelly has made. Tim is in Tucson. Tell him I told you to call. The restitution was made to virtually all of the people that bought from him.
And I know for an absolute fact that Shelly has done more in a week to combat forgeries then most anyone else in the hobby has done in a lifetime. We have worked together on this, so this is not a statement made out of speculation or rumor or third hand story telling. I know it for a fact. He also was instrumental in saving $85,000 for the owner of that ridiculous promo card of Ruth, Johnson, Cobb, Wagner autographs that contained two forgeries and was put out by Upper Deck. Made us all wonder who was buying autographs for them and who were they buying from. And if anyone wants to see how ridiculous Upper Deck got in what they were buying go to my blog at www.richardsimonsports.com/hofauto2.htm and scroll down a ways. Look at all the embarrassing stuff that UD bought.
I am glad to state that Shelly is a friend of mine, as most here know, and that we share anger toward the thieves of this hobby, love of movies (he shares that more with DanC then with me but it is an occasional subject of conversation) and love of liberal politics and bemusement at Mitt Romney. (sorry Leon I won't be bringing politics to the board again, it is just one little sentence and I won't bring it up again).