Renewed call for help - 1978 wiffle ball
 

Awhile back I posted on this board for some help. I got a little bit, but I'm hoping for some more.

I'm trying to confirm all 88 cards in the 1978 Wiffle ball set. These are the ones that were printed directly on the box, not the die cut ones inserted inside boxes (those are 1977)

To date I have only been able to confirm 80 cards. They were issued on various sizes of Wiffle balls. (junior, regulation., softball and bat/ball sleeves.

The ones I have been able to confirm are:

Bell
Bench
Blue
Blyleven
Bonds
Brett
Brock
Buckner
Burris
Burroughs
Campaneris
Candelaria
Cardenal
Carlton
Cash
Cedeno
Cey
Chambliss
Concepcion
Eckersley
Fidrych
Fingers
Fisk
Foster
Garland
Garr
Garvey
Gullett
Hisle
Hunter
Jackson
Joshua
Kingman
Koosman
LeFlore
Lezcano
Lopes
Luzinski
Lynn
Maddox
Matlack
Matthews
May
Mayberry
McBride
McGraw
McRae
Messersmith
Moffitt
Montefusco
Morgan
Munson
Nettles
North
Oliver
Orta
Palmer
Parker
Perez
Perry
Rice
Rodriquez
Rose
Rudi
Ryan
Sanguillen
Schmidt
Seaver
Simmons
Smith
Spencer
Stargell
Stennett
Tanana
Tenace
Tiant
Trillo
Watson
Wynegar
Zisk


There were eight players who were issued in the 1977 set that remain unconfirmed for the 1978 sets (Bonds, Carew, Hrabosky, Jones, Kranepool, Rogers, Staub and Yastrzemski) but I can't be sure these players are the "missing" players.

If anyone has information on any 1978 Wiffle discs not listed in this post please let me know.

I found my ball/bat sleeves. And can confirm Carew/Yaz on the same sleeve.

I have two sleeves, Reggie Jackson/ Tug McGraw with maroon side panels on the discs and Carew/Yaz with white side panels.

I haven't found the boxes I have yet.

Steve B

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...pictureid=7104

That's a huge help Steve (let me know if you're interested in selling that one)

With that confirmation I am now six cards shy of confirming the 88

(Bonds, Hrabosky, Jones, Kranepool, Rogers, and Staub)

Do you have the list broken down by source? It would be interesting to see if they were all available on each sort of package or if some only came one way.

I'm betting a few of the discs won't have been isued or that some are only on the bat/ball holder, since 5 doesn't go into 88 evenly

The Yaz/Carew may actually be from 1979. Pretty typical of the era some small stores and small distributors had inventory well after it had been discontinued, making it hard to tell. I think I bought the Yaz at a white hen pantry store. some time after I'd bought the Jackson/McGraw. It's torn, so it's also likely It came from one of the other kids in the neighborhood.

I recall some bat/ball combos with a corrugated holder, I think I have a partial one, but it's in the unsorted stuff maybe with the boxes.

That was a great couple years for disc locally. The White Hen had Chilly Willy and carried whiffleballs, and Papa Ginos was also in town. I managed to get advertising pieces for both of those full size sets.

Plus there were the RC cans.....
And Hostess.....

Steve B

I didn't want to get to detailed and make a boring post, but the breakdown of the cards by package that I can confirm is:

Junior size (1):
Campaneris/Lopes/Fidrych/Kingman/Stennett


Regulation (8)
Garland/Tanana/Perez/Hisle/Rice
Moffitt/Maddox/Simmons/Mayberry/Rodriquez
Brock/Concepcion/Schmidt/Lynn/Parker
Blyleven/Zisk/May/Garr/Joshua
Bell/Stargell/Tenace/Luzinski/Sanguillen
Orta/Montefusco/Blue/Rose/Fisk
Seaver/Nettles/Matlack/Lezcano/Trillo
Munson/Garvey/Rudi/Cardenal/Spencer


Softball(3)
Bando/Burroughs/Watson/Hunter/Matthews
Tiant/Cedeno/Koosman/Wynegar/North
Brett/Cash/Burris/Candelaria/LeFlore


Bat/Ball Sleeve (11)
Palmer/Bench
Eckersley/Buckner
Oliver/Messersmith
Jackson/McGraw
Yastrzemski/Carew
Carlton/Smith
Chambliss/Perry
Fingers/Foster
Morgan/McRae
Gullett/McBride
Ryan/Cey

I personally own all but the last seven bat/ball sleeves. I have seen pictures of them to know they exist. That accounts for 82 cards. The boxes state that 88 players are in the set so I'm still looking for six more.

Each card appears only once in the set. When this set ever gets re cataloged they will clearly need to consider the scarcity of the issuing boxes, much like they do Post or Hostess. There are a TON more regulation cards out there than sleeves or junior balls.

(edited to account for one sleeve I missed)

Question?
 

Are the die cut cards and the box cards the same or is there a way to distinguish them other than the cut method? I'm a Brett player collector and have had one of these for years but never realized there were two versions. And I have the date listed (seemingly incorrectly) as 1976 on my checklist...probably from a Beckett list.

Thanks for the info on these...the checklist just keeps growing.

The backs are different on the two versions. There's also a noticeable difference in the cardboard quality between the two.

Not having them in front of me I can't give a verbatim answer as to which back is which. The 1977 die cuts are all the same on the back, the box cards differ depending on where they were on the box (some cards faced to the inside of the box some to the outside)

Here's a couple pickups, Gullett/McBride sleeve and Reggie/Tug McGraw in blue shown with my maroon one.

Steve B
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...pictureid=7434

That's the first color variation I've seen. I don't know what that portends. Was it a different year? Simply a different run?

The checklist still remains unresolved as the players featured on the color variations are identical.

I wish I'd written down what year I got the couple I had before. For some reason I'm thinking the Reggie/tug is 78 and the Yaz/carew with no color is 79. I moved to town very late in 77, I don't remember if the inserted discs were around then, But I did get a couple, which makes me think the Sears either put them out late or didn't have them till 78. Possible with a big chain, stuff sometimes stayed in the supply line a long time. (And crazier in Canada, I bought 77 OPC in the Canadian half of Glacier park in mid summer 78 and they'd just gottten them)

We played in the backyard which had a semi Polo grounds feel to it - Wall and trees along left field, lillacs along right, narrow and about 100ft to the grapevines along the fence in center. We'd play late into fall, the season ending when the ball hit either the 3rd base rock or the stone wall in left and shattered. Usually a 20degree day in early Dec.:)

That's part of why I'm thinking the colorless bat sleeves are a different year. We used up a few balls a year, but only wrecked one or two bats.

Steve B

This thread is three and a half years old so I don't know if there have been any new discoveries of the six unconfirmed 1978 wiffle discs, but I found two of them, Ed Kranepool and Steve Rogers on a wiffle bat and ball holder. I think that it's pretty safe to say that the remaining four players, hitters Bobby Bonds and Rusty Staub and pitchers Al Hrabosky and Randy Jones, will eventually be found on two more of these wiffle bat and ball holders.

Thanks for the new info. Going 3 1/2 years without new info shows how frustrating this set is.

If your interested in selling that sleeve let me know.

Unrelated question - if the cards were MLB licensed, why are there no logos on the caps?

Licensing at the time was a lot less organized than it is now. The MLB license if I recall it right was only for the team names and the player likenesses in general, the team logos had to be licensed through the teams and the individual players had control over their own images.

Licensing then was also a lot less expensive and less controlled.

Steve B

I have to disagree with part of this. MLB was licensing the team logos in 1978. From 1968-86 , all national licensing contracts were handled by MLBPC through the Licensing Corporation of America (LCA), a division of Warner Communications, Inc. During this period, Clubs licensed their own trademarks to companies authorized to sell in the Clubs' respective local markets and MLBPC handled the National contracts.

Ok, That makes sense.

I can't imagine Whiffle being local, although they were in RI I think, so I'm in their local area.

Maybe MSA didn't license the logos?
Or didn't use them to keep consistent with older art they already had?

Steve B

Another one has popped up on eBay, a 1978 bat and ball holder with Rusty Staub and Randy Jones. The only two unaccounted for now are Bobby Bonds and Al Hrabosky, which will undoubtedly show up on one of these bat and ball sleeves.

Why does PSA slab the wiffle ball as 1976 but have them listed under 1978?

MLBPA logo, not MLB
 

The logo is the MLBPA logo, not the MLB logo.

That Al Hrabosky wiffle disc is almost certainly a 1977, not a 1978. 1977's are die cut and were inserted in the boxes, 1978's were on the box itself and were meant to be cut out. ETA, all wiffle discs are either from 1977 (die cut) or from 1978 (printed on the box or the bat and ball sleeve), but they all have a 1976 copyright which is why they are sometimes referred to mistakenly as being from 1976.

Hello...I am responsible for PSA changing their listings from 1976 and 1977 to 1978. I have been in touch with Wiffle (in Conn not RI) and the son of the inventor sent me product releases from those days which confirmed that the die cut discs (80) were inserted into boxes only in 1978 and the discs printed on the box sides (12 boxes with 5 discs per box) and on the so called "header sleeves" (14 sleeves of 2 players each for total of 28) were from 1979. SO the wiffles that PSA had labeled in the past 1976 and 1977 are really from 1978. I have sent the info to SCD and they will be correcting both in the next issue of the Std catalog. .

Cliff - that is not correct...read my reply to the previous message

On the die cut 80 disc set, it contains the following players listed with teams that they played for in 1977 but were on different teams in 1978: Dennis Eckersley Indians (traded to Red Sox before 1978 season), Bert Blyleven Rangers (traded to Pirates in December 1977), Larry Hisle Twins (signed as free agent with Brewers in November 1977), Dave Kingman Padres (he only played for them from June 1977 to early September 1977 before playing for the Angels and Yankees and then signing with Cubs in November 1977), Jon Matlack Mets (traded to Rangers in December 1977), Manny Sanguillen A's (he only played for A's during the 1977 season before going back to Pirates before 1978 season), Richie Zisk White Sox (he only played for the White Sox in 1977 before signing with Rangers in November 1977). In order for you to be correct that these came out in 1978, whoever printed these did a horrendous job of updating teams, or, they were printed in the summer of 1977 but not released until 1978.

Well, it was done by MSA........

I can see the lead time in production packing distribution causing some of those. Things were a bit slower then.

And 78 and 79 is pretty much what I recall. We moved to the Boston area in Sept 77, and I was getting the cards in Sears in the spring. Lead time to a major retailer like Sears would have been longer. I'm not entirely sure the box cards weren't available in late 77. I do know that a lot of kids took the cards out of the boxes, and either took them or added it to another box. Had to check the box before buying. I'd thought that was what caused the cards printed on the boxes, perhaps before 79? But overall it matches what I remember.

What a great year 78 was! Sox going great - until.... Cards in wiffleballs, Hostess, frosted flakes, Papa Ginos, and with Chille Willee at the local store. Plus , regular Topps, Fleer stickers, OPC picked up on a cross country trip, the sspc all star book, RC cola cans, .............
And the town I was in had a shop that was mostly baseball cards so I was getting into older cards too. :D

Steve B

If they're ok with it I'd love to see those product releases. It's crazy, but I really like that stuff and it's almost impossible to find.

Steve B

So will PSA be slabbing this one to 1978 soon? The flip with 76 actually shows up in the registry as 78 and the 77 flip (just got back from PSA) shows as 77. And both are in the Master Set.

I will say that, from personal experience, I have zero doubt in my mind that the die cut discs were available in May of 1978. I know exactly where I was at the time and what I was doing when I got them.

I can't be 100% certain from personal experience because I was a kid and it was a long time ago, but I did pull a Frank Tanana disc from a box and it was very likely 1978. It couldn't have been any earlier, because I had moved that summer and got it while in my new house.

I will try to post pics of the prod release documents that Wiffle sent me.. Have patience, I'm not quite sure how to do this yet.

Steve B ,

The files are pdf and are 400Kb...this thread says posting pics have to be < 19Kb when I shrink that much you cannot read the letter so I'm not sure how to load. Send me you email and I will forward to you...

Just had a look at them, and they're really cool. And as conclusive as it gets as far as year of issue. When the promo literature from the company itself says they've changed the format of the cards for 1979 and catalog pages specifically say 1978 and 1979 and picture the product it doesn't get much better.


Steve B

Thanks Phil. Would now want the color sheet for the Garvey appearance if ever one were to surface for sale!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81...pszbsw97i7.jpghttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81...psxcezfo17.jpghttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81...pszolurbgq.jpghttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81...ps58vslj15.jpg

The next big challenge is getting the price guide to reflect the scarcity of certain cards. Much like the Post/Jello cards of the 69's card scarcity is directly affected by the popularity of the product.

There is only on Junior sized wiffle box (Fidrych is on it.), three softball and 8 regulation sized.

Far more regulation sized were sold than the other two. If they were sold by more than 2:1 over softball and 8:1 for junior (both very likely) than the odd sized box cards are rarer.

Of course the sleeve cards are a whole different matter. Their popularity was very small and it is impossible to have cards without heavy creases.

The current SC lists the prices of the 1979 set as identical to their 1978 counterparts. That's completely wrong.

I have several of the individual boxes with Garvey, but have seen the large box (empty) featuring Garvey only once. It was on ebay and I lost out to someone who wanted it more. There were more players on it, Yaz may have been one of the others, I don't remember now. I am always wondering who the people are that beat me for items with Garvey on them.

Good wifffle ball news
 

finally some good news for al of you who are concerned about this. Through the work of Cosetta and Gail at PSA we have finally straightened out the wiffle fiasco. They are now grading the regular discs as 1978 and the discs printed on the boxes with thick dotted lines around them as 1979. The set composite is now fixed and sets exist for both 1978 and 1979.

In terms of individual players, they are changing the set composites one at a time as requested by users. They are also changing all the "bad" labels (there are literally several hundred discs out there labeled as 1976) as mechanicals as they are sent in. In the end player sets should only have 1978 and 1979 wiffle cards in their composites (of course only if the players were indeed in those sets) Any questions let me know....

Good news. I'm glad one of our favorite sets is finally getting some respect.

wiffle
 

anyone alive

so no 1977 ?

cosetta
 

Thats awesome, i get it now, and how did you get Cosetta to listen to you .. lol :)

Hrabosky/Bonds
 

Picked up the Hrabosky/Bonds sleeve. There is a color variation too correct? Need to track that one down :) Thanks for all of the great info on this board.

That's a nice little holy Grail one there. Where did that surface?

Snagged it off of ebay Mark.

I own Palmer and Bench both cut off the same Wiffle Ball bat box (with the same factory folds as the ones pictured).

I think this is wrong. The box-side cutout disks include Bill North as a member of the A's (he played with the Dodgers in '78 and would be listed with them if cards were indeed issued in '79). Same thing with Jim Spencer. Box cut out shows him with White Sox. He played with Yankees in '78 and a 1979 issued card would have showed him with NY. John Mayberry also. He played with Toronto in '78 and as such, his cards would show Blue Jays if it were a 1979 card (but it doesn't; it shows him on the Royals).

I originally thought the same thing, one 1979 box has Jose Cardenal as a Cub even though he hadn't played for them sine 1977 and the 1978 Dave Kingman die cut disc has him as a Padre even though he was on his third organization since being a Padre before the 1978 season even started, but ArmourPhil has indisputable proof that the die cut discs were a 1978 issue and the boxes and sleeves were a 1979 issue. It was just horrible product quality control by whoever created and printed them.

Thought I would share...PSA is now slabbing the complete header sleeve boxes.
This is for my Hrabosky Master set.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4bf606d0df.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...59b3f4f60e.jpg

Only a 2?

I've never seen one that wasn't creased, that's how they put them on the bat and ball set.